Hello, I'm new to the tablet pc world. I w

[AniTiki]

Hello,

I'm new to the tablet pc world.

I was wondering if someone could direct me towards a tablet pc that has pressure sensitivity.

I'm an animator and i need to be able to make a thin to thick line in programs like macromedia flash mx and especially Corel painter 8.

My budget is only $2000.

I'm also looking for the tablet pc to have wifi, a keyboard and at least 512 mb ram.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what computer i should perhaps purchase?

Thank you
-Nelson Diaz

[Shogmaster]

3 Options:

1. Ultra mobility: 10.4 or 12.1 inch models. Go for either the HP TC1100 or Acer TMC111 for 10.4, or Fujitsu T3010 for 12.1 (too bad the Toshiba M200 is over $2000). Unfortunately, drawing on 12 or even worse 10 inch screens are no fun at all, At least for me (got big hands.... for an Asian....).

2. Low mobility: 14.1 inch models will provide better much more freeing drawing area size. As big as it gets for TPCs right now. Acer C302 and Gateway M275 are your choices. As a bonus, these come with optical drives built in. The con is that they are heavy.

3. No mobility: Wacom Cintiq 15X has been lowered to $1500, and is a much better drawing device than any TPC since it's bigger, has more pressure sensitivity, has MUCH better screen quality than any TPC screens, and can be mated to any fast computer (one that you already have perhaps). And if you don't have your own computer right now, you can build an awesome 2D PC for $500 easily, so technically, $2000 will get you a non- mobile TPC this way. ;)

Some things to keep in mind: To use Painter 8 effectively, you should have at least 1GB of RAM (I have 2GB of RAM and even then Painter 8 complains about lack of RAM when building brushes over 100 pixels). Getting 1GB of RAM with TPCs would probably take you over $2000, since 512MB DDR SODIMMs are expensive, and you only can have 2 slot in TPCs and laptops. Less of a problem to get 1GB of RAM on desktops, especially if you have a mobo with 4 DIMM slots (like I do).

My personal recommendation as a Painter user on a Cintiq and a TPC: If you don't need to be mobile (notice I said "need", not "like to". We all would like to be mobile all the time. And we all would like to be millionaires too ;)), then you should definitely get a Cintiq 15X over a TPC. Much better Painter experience on a Cintiq. Trust me on this one.

[WNewquay]

Nelson,
Welcome to the forums here at "the buzz"

Shogmaster has done a really nice job of summarizing issues that relate to your needs as an animator,

We have a collection of links that speak to the "world" of Tablet PC ownership.


So You Think You Want a Tablet PC
Welcome! New Tablet PC User
Comparing Tablet PCs - Spy vs. Spy

Under the first link you will find a section:
I am a __________________ Is a Tablet PC for me. See the links related to artists.

[AniTiki]

Thanks so much for the awesome feedback.

I had considered getting a 15x cintiq, but i became obssessed with the idea of mobility. However, Being mobile may be bad now that i think about it considering that when i animate i need to concentrate and going to starbucks with my tpc may not be the greatest idea when a friend can just come by and interrupt.

I'm still undecided though mostly cause for the price of a cintiq i can get a whole new computer in a tpc.

However i have a really small budget and a desktop pc at home that works well. With $2000 i could buy the cintiq- ram for my pc or maybe even a new video card.

So i'm leaning more towards the tablet pc right now.

Thanks again

-Nelson

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by AniTiki

Thanks so much for the awesome feedback.

I had considered getting a 15x cintiq, but i became obssessed with the idea of mobility. However, Being mobile may be bad now that i think about it considering that when i animate i need to concentrate and going to starbucks with my tpc may not be the greatest idea when a friend can just come by and interrupt.

Ahhh yes.... The irresistable lure of drawing at Starbucks while sipping on Caramel Machiato...... I know where you are coming from my friend.... It is almost too much to bear. Personally, one upping those poser Mac'ers is another bonus. Anyways, many good folks have fallen to this alluring promise. I certainly won't blame you for falling for it as well.

quote:I'm still undecided though mostly cause for the price of a cintiq i can get a whole new computer in a tpc.

I've also fallen for this false logic as well. My mistake came before any TPCs in the form of the Sony Slimtop LX900 Pen Tablet computer back in early 2001.



Back then, Wacom still was selling their PL500 (precusor to the Cintiq 15X, which is actually PL550) for $4000!



PL500 IIRC had the same UD series pen and sensor that the current TPCs uses, and was a 15" 24bit XGA LCD. Then in early 2001, Sony came out with the LX900, which was basically an upgrade of their LX800 Slimtop model with an added Wacom digitiser from the PL500. The kicker was, that this thing only had a MSRP of $2999! So I thought: "hey, I don't have a decent computer right now (my 5 year old Pentium 200 was getting way too long in the tooth at the time), so instead of dreaming about the PL500 + another $1500 for a decent computer ($5500!) I should just jump on this Sony for $3000 and save a fortune! Yeah!"

After test driving it for few days at CompUSA where I worked during those days, I got it for $3000 out the door with a 2 year CompUSA warranty (which turned out to be a life saver) with my discount.

Now before buying it, I knew there was couple of major problems with the machine from checking it out for few days: A). It was a Flex ATX mobo in a slim top case which meant upgrading this thing would be a nightmare if not downright impossible. Never a good thing. B). The connector from the LCD to the computer was neither VGA nor DVI but this wierd proprietary connector that I've never seen as a monitor connector. It resembled DVI, and was digital, but the connector also carried signal for speakers, and PS2 connection for the mouse and keyboard as well. Basically, that monitor was married to that computer. No divorce possible.

Even with my left brain cranking out the warning siren, my right brain fell for the false promise of a cheaper solution (hey, it's a LCD pen tablet that comes with a computer!) and forced me to buy it (so many horrible impulse buys can be blamed on that wicked right brain, right folks?).

To make the whole ordeal short and sweet, the thing turned out to be a lemon, and a year later I gave it back to CompUSA and got 2/3 of the money back from them thanks to their warranty that they forced me to buy because I was an impressionable new employee. However, even if the thing wasn't a lemon and it worked like a champ even today, you know what I'd have with me right now? A slow @ss 1Ghz Pentium III that only has 2 PC133 DIMM slots and no AGP port, with a Wacom PL500 that's [u]PERMANENTLY ATTACHED TO IT</u> for all intents and purposes. Even though PL500 would have been much more expensive, it would still be serving me well today (assuming it didn't have some kind of failure) on my P4 3Ghz workstation with 2GB of DDR SDRAM, and whatever I end up building later.

That's a huge lesson there.

quote:However i have a really small budget and a desktop pc at home that works well. With $2000 i could buy the cintiq- ram for my pc or maybe even a new video card.

So i'm leaning more towards the tablet pc right now.

Thanks again

-Nelson

It sound like your reasoning above is pointing more to a Cintiq purchase than a TPC purchase. But then again, there is that whole Starbucks thing.... ;)

[schroder]

Hello, I am also an illustrator who recently got a tablet to draw on. I also have a cintiq as well as a regular wacom tablet. I gave a review of my experiences in the toshiba forum as I have a M200 but I will summarize some of my feelings here for the purpose of this discussion. This kind of decision really comes down to how much use you would get out of a laptop in general. If you look at it from strictly an art supply standpoint the Cintiq wins. If you use a laptop on a regular basis or plan to do so then getting a tablet instead of a regular laptop is more like spending a little extra for some extra features. In this case the tablet makes more sense as you were going to get a laptop anyway and just added a neat feature on it that allows you to be productive while away from the studio. For line sketching such as is done in animation and layout the advantage of cintiq over a tablet pc are less also because the two biggest disadvantages are partially negated. One being the view angle - contrast/color shifting is not an issue in primarily linear drawing in monochrome and the slowdown in painter with using large/complex brushes and effects is not as much of an issue since using a tablet to do animation style drawings does not call for particularly large or complex brushes. This size of the screen and thus drawing surface is really a matter of personal taste. While many painters prefer large working surfaces animators are typically doing their work on sheets of paper that are quite a bit closer to a tablet pc screen's dimensions. For screen size you can live with you should measure out a 10" diagonal paper and a 12, and a 14" to see what you can live with in terms of drawing. Also note that there is a definite sweet spot in the middle of the screen for drawing as the closer you get to the edges the greater the parralax effect and the less likely things will be accurate. It is important to keep in mind some of your screen real estate will be taken up by tools and palettes so make sure to block those in on your paper cut outs to give an accurate picture of how much space you're going to have to live with. If you set your desktop resolution to the tablet you have in mind and set up your palettes in painter you can get a good idea before you ever buy one of what you will be looking at in terms of a working space. Also keep in mind that in general when using painter on a tablet when you are away from the desk you will not be able to use keyboard shortcuts easily which slows down workflow somewhat although I find the tablet to be pretty fast to select things manually compared to a mouse or conventional wacom. The cintiq + wacom + palette on second monitor setup is the ultimate but thats not really realistic on a $2000 budget either =)

Basic summary - If you want to do high resolution, detailed, complex paintings with subtle color or value manipulation you may want to look more seriously at the Cintiq. If your plan is to do mostly line drawings in one color and simple 2-3 value setups there is no real reason not to use a tablet pc in my opinion unless you cannot live with the size or resolution limitations. Also unless you absolutely need it now saving 3-6 months to extend your budget up a few hundred dollars and allowing the prices to drop as the next generation starts to get closer (hopefully) will get you more computer for the money.

Also for this obsolecence is a relative thing. As long as it is capable of creating the images you want then it doesn't matter if in a couple years there are computers that are 5x faster. From the standpoint of a tool for creating art its ability to generate images has not changed. Certainly it is not as sexy to drive a 95 honda as it is to drive an 04 BMW but they both get you where you want to go, one just has less room for your pride =). There are more than a few professionals who still prefer to use Painter 6.1 so always staying with the absolute most up to date software (which in turn generally requires up to date hardware) can sometimes be forgiven in the case of something like Painter. My plan personally is to use it until it is no longer capable of doing the work I need to accomplish or until I can save enough money to comfortably upgrade.

I bought my tablet to do art on yes but it is not the only tool I use. Paper, canvas, pens, sketchbooks, my desktop computer + cintiq, and my tablet pc are all tools I use. Is it a magic tool that solves all my artistic problems? Of course not. Is it useful and fun? Yes as long as I am aware of its limitations and do not attempt to use the tool for problems it is ill equipped to solve. My 2 cents - do your research, think carefully on what you plan to use it for and if you can work within the limitations of the tablet workspace by all means go for it - it is a fun device. Just make sure you have realistic expectations.

[Shogmaster]

OMG schroder.... We've been running around in circles of eachother posting in the different threads. For instance, I just replied to the thread in the Toshiba forums telling you to try Painter 6 on your M200, while you're telling AniTiki about Painter 6 yourself. Pretty silly stuff! :D

[WNewquay]

Great thread!
FYI - I have added this thread to
So You Think You Want a Tablet PC in the
I am a _________________ Will a Tablet PC Work for me? section.

[AniTiki]

Wow, such great help. I gotta say this site has one of the best forums i've been to. I've really learned a lot.

When i was at my last animation internship: www.bunkostudios.com

They were using the sony vaio slimtop lx900's for animating in a mostly traditional style in Flash mx. They worked great, but for anything else they were slow as hell. Not to mention what Shogmaster was saying about the screen being married to the horrible tower design that allows very limited upgrading.

In addition to 4 of those lx900's they also had the wacom PL500 and that thing was working good as new as if it were fresh out the box.

So they were trying all these options. Currently, at the internship they are looking into getting tablet pcs.

The tablet pc i bought recently is a Sager-Midern NP2885 series. Its priced starting at $1,295, which is reasonably cheap- and so why i bought it. But the pen is just a piece of plastic with no pressure sensitivity, and so you can only take notes. My own fault for being naive. Not so bad if you look at the specs:

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...oductType=2885

Also based out of State Island, Ny is Element Computers which offers a $999 starting tablet pc, and they have a no windows policy so it comes with linux interestingly enough, it can also boot with windows if you so choose:

http://elementcomputer.com/store/pro...f8f1583ddf4d80

However for me, being not only an Animator, but an artist in general i need the pressure sensitivity.

And so i know for sure that i'm definitely going with the 15x cintiq to add on to my dell, which already has a flat screen monitor though its only a crappy lcd- but it'll be great for have a dual setup, so my palettes can go onto the other screen.

Thanks again,
Nels

[JRH]

Professional animator here - I bought the M205 and love it. Use it for sketching and for scribbling down thumbnails for the scenes I'm working on. Then I email them to my work, and use them as reference while working.

The artist above has a great point - I don't know about using it to do final work, but for sketching (Alias Sketchbook is a terrific program) out rough ideas, it's fantastic.