Looking for USED Tablet PC for Comic Strip Artist

[TedRx]

Wow!

This site is by far the BEST resource for Tablets on the Web. I have spent hours and hours and hours searching and reading everything I could find on Tablet PC for artist, and none have been better than the forums here!
So, First , I want to thank ALL of you who have spent your time to share your thoughts and experiences.

I have a fairly simple and focused reason for getting a Tablet Pc,
I am working on a Comic Strip as my Hobby, and I am creating it with all the guidelines of a Newspaper formated strip such as black and white dailies and color only on Sundays. To this end, I am using Corel PhotoPaint X3 (nothing against Adobe PhotoShop, but I had Corel on an old computer and am used to it ... and Corel is considerably cheaper). The only 2 other things I do with a computer is casual Emailing and casual Web-surfing ... NO gaming, spreadsheets, intense word processing, etc...as I have a desktop and a notebook if need for other task.

I have been working on the strip with my 2 year old budget notebook (1.4 GHz Celeron M, 512 Mb Ram with 14" widescreen) and Graphire Wiacom tablet. And as you experienced artist know, there is a strange dis-association with this set-up, drawing on the tablet while looking at the screen for results. So, I THINK the Tablet PC configuration would eliminate this problem and be a more natural form factor for art creation. Also it would be less of a "footprint' to deal with too, as the notebook PLUS tablet is awkward at best for me.

After reading most all the related forums here and looking on EBAY for a Tablet PC in my target range ($500 ballpark), I think I have narrowed my choices down to Motion M1300/1400, Tecra M4, Toshiba M200, Fugitsu T3000 series convertible or Fugitsu Stylistic ST4000 series slate(under $350 .. is this a deal or what??).

Since this does not have to be my main COMPUTER but rather an artist tool for me, the things I don't need in this tablet is
-Vista capability, Windows Xp works fine for me.
-anymore processing speed than needed for 2-d artwork creation
as I am willing to give up some processor power for portability and
form-factor.
-battery life longer than 2-3 hours with wi-fi off, as often I have
access to outlets, and don't require wifi while working on art
-an on board optical drive (DVD/CD), I don't watch movies on my pc's
but I do TIVO-to-Go via a wifi connection download (usually while plugged in when I sleep)from time to time -- TIVO IS AWESOME!!!
-a hard drive bigger than 20Gb, as I have a desktop to archive on.
-pressure sensitivity beyond 512, as 256 would probably do
-outdoor viewing, as I work inside
-any more weight or size than necessary

Also, I am not looking for the PERFECT Tablet PC ... but rather an acceptable Tablet PC. Anything that works as good, or almost as good, as my 2 year old buget notebook (1.4 GHz Celeron M, 512 Mb Ram with 14" widescreen)).

Also, I understand the Cintiq is the modern 8th wonder of the world, but I have no desire for it because I am mobile when working on the strip (at work on my breaks, in den, kitchen, bed, and where-ever else I have a minute or two to work)...and also I WILL NEVER be a talented enough artist to use the advantages of the Cintiq, nor the over 512 pressure sensitivity.

All that said (and thanks for listening so far), I would like to hear from those of you who actually use a Tablet PC for comic strip style art, or 2-D illustration creation. On one post I read some where, I think the guy who draws the OVER THE HEDGE strip said he used a M200, but that was years ago.

In additon, I would like to hear your thoughts on SLATE vs CONVERTIBLE, as I am naturally leaning toward SLATE since it looks like an art tablet and seems to be much lighter and thinner, and with things like wireless keyboards and Motion's keyboard in the hardshell cover, I think my limited keyboarding needs would be handled acceptably. Also, for those of you with a CONVERTIBLE, do you find the thickness of it to be a hinder when drawing on a flat surface, such as counter-top, or is it a worthy price to pay for the ability to convert form?


[u]Please include:</u>
Your tablet(s)

Your Processor and Ram,
and the affects you think they have on [u]acceptable</u> performance

Your screen size and resolution, and if you think it matters to go higher or lower in either

Whether your screen is view anywhere and if you think it matters

Your opinion of screen protectors, and screen feel with the sylus

You opinion on SLATE vs CONVERTIBLE

Your Battery Life

An example of art work you did, or link to artwork done on Tablet Pc

And your overall grade of Great, Good, Good-Enough, or "wish it were more" for your Tablet PC

As well as ANYTHING ELSE YOU FEEL SOME NEEDS TO KNOW ....

And lastly, if ANYONE reading this (artist or not) has any experience buying one of these, or similar, used budget Tablet PCs on EBAY recently, please share your reflections on the buying process as well as the general condition of these machines and your over-all satisfaction with the device for what you do with it, and considering price you paid.

THANK ALL OF YOU SO MUCH!!!

[bmhome1]

Member Chad Essley (aka cartoonmonkey) recently reviewed Motion LE1700 vs Sahara i440 from professional illustrator's perspective and basically concluded his long-used Motion 1400 with VA screen STILL is state-of-the-art artist's tablet. His review:

http://www.cartoonmonkey.com/Sahara/shootout.html

A mint condition Motion 1400 VA screen with maxed 2GB RAM and 7200rpm Hitachi drive would be ideal solution well below $1,000-1,200. Wait another year for better slate offerings worth spending 2-3X more launch.

Be VERY wary of eBay sales, there's 1400's scams and end-of-life offerings. Pay a premium for fully accesorized unit. No one keeps original boxes and abuses their gear also.

XP tablets MUST come with original recovery disks and intact serial numbers. Scratched off and/or missing disks signal bad choices, no matter the price. Forget price as guide, pay for condition!

I bought M1300 used $600 with new LCD and two batteries in mint condition 1 1/2 years ago and still consider it certainly one of, if not best, tech purchase ever made. It runs PSCS3, ArtRage and anything else thrown at it, in Vista no less. The key is maxed RAM and 7200 drive above all else.

Felt tip nibs from Wacom and Targus Tornado USB cooling pad best accessories artist can have.

[TedRx]

Thank you for your response bmhome1.

At $600, I would have to agree that it was a DEAL

I have sent the word out to many veteran Tablet Pc users for thier advice as well, and I want to encourage anyone and everyone who has used a Tablet Pc for art to contribute as well. It will be vauled by myself and many others searching for similar answers.

One thing I left out was that I would love to know WHICH art progam(s) you run and how they generally do on the Tablet Pc. Especially since I know many of you use more than one, and have had experince with the programs on non-Tablets as well. A contrast and comparison of your experience would be great too!

And EVERYONE please remember ... long answers are wonderful resources, so don't be bashfully.

TedRx

[schroder]

Well you don't have a lot of range in your budget to work with but it might be good to know what resolution those comic strips are drawn at. The responsiveness in most 2d graphic apps has a direct relationship with image size. I've never used Corel Photopaint but I do use Alias Sketchbook Pro 2.0 (probably the majority of the time for sketching), Adobe Photoshop CS3, Corel Painter X, Artrage 2.5 (rarely), Manga Studio (for comic inking and panels... still use sketchbook to sketch layout and roughs for the most part). I have always found the native ink use in sketchbook and artrage to be more responsive with less lag in pen strokes than the wintab based programs such as photoshop and painter. This has lead to me doing as much of my work as possible in those programs and only resorting to photoshop and painter for detailed renderings or finishing full color paintings since its superior color processing and layer modes overcome the slight pen lag for those tasks.

I owned a Fujitsu Stylistic 5220 and used it for over 3 years. It was durable, lightweight, had a great screen, and amazing battery life (approx 4.5-6 hrs on one battery depending on use - and I had 2 batteries with an external charger). Its downsides were relatively slow processor, low resolution (1024x768), and no bluetooth for wireless keyboards. I got really good at using the tablet interface since its a slate and even though I currently own a convertable I still use it in slate mode the majority of the time. That training on the slate certainly made me more likely to do short text input and notes in slate mode while before I almost certainly would have tried to type as much as possible.

I rarely use my computer flat on a table as I prefer to use it in my lap. If you want to know if a convertable or slate will be too thick to use the way you normally use it, get a clipboard and stack some white paper on it until it is the same height as the tablet in question. Put it flat on the table and draw on it. Everyone's preferences and comfort zones are different and this is the only way I know of to accurately test whether you'll be comfortable or not. For extra points you could cut the paper to the same dimensions of the screen but I don't think thats really necessary if you are only concerned with screen thickness. If drawing is the tablet's primary function and you will do all your word processing and other tasks that it is not as suited for on other machines, I would almost certainly go with a slate. I owned a slate for 3 years as my only laptop (had a desktop) and I would not hesitate to buy another one in the same situation. I loved drawing on it.

I recently bought a convertable gateway C-140X to replace my Fujitsu. The only reason I bought a convertible is that it was the cheapest for the features I wanted. Those were a higher resolution/bigger screen to draw on and fastest processor available without sacrificing much battery life. The gateway has fulfilled all of these things. The only thing it doesn't have is the excellent viewing angles of the Boe-Hydis based Fujitsu and motion VA screens. Unfortunately they don't make screens greater than 12" but maybe on my next upgrade! When working with many layers or high resolution images, raw processor speed and RAM are the limiting factors so I wanted to have as much headroom as I could get there. I rarely use the convertible function and if I had been able to find a high end slate with the features I wanted I probably would have gone for it.

That said, my Fujitsu had a 1.0 ghz processor and 2GB of RAM and the performance was adequate in many drawing tasks. Thats why I ask what resolution you are working in because if its not too large it is workable. Keep in mind resolution vs acceptable working space. Change your desktop or notebook screen to the same resolution as your tablet is going to be. Open your graphic app of choice with all the palettes and menus your would like to have open on your tablet. Screen capture it and then adjust the printed image size to the same dimensions as the tablet screen and print it out. try drawing in the usable area and decide whether or not that is too small for you to work in or if its acceptable. Keep in mind you can freely zoom in and out of an image but thats the biggest space you can move your hand in for drawing.

Hopefully some of that helps, if you have any other specific questions feel free to ask.

[TedRx]

Schroder, Thanks for your info and insights.

The Gateway C140s (one level down from your C140x) for $799 *NEW* at gateway website is MIGHTY tempting as it is a huge screen and all the bells and whistles of a regular laptop. The only down sides for me are:
#1- weight is more than I planned for, but as i have said , I'm looking for ACCEPTABLE not PERFECT ... and that could be acceptable.
#2- it is $300 above my target, but for BRAND NEW I might be willing to wait a little while longer to rat-hole some Christmas money to get to that level of price-point.

The resolution that I have been working at is 1024x768 on my desktop 15" LCD, and 1280x768 on my 14" wide-screen lcd laptop. I did go into Corel Photopaint (very similar to Adobe PhotoShop..but not quite as good from what I read, but it'll do what I need) after changing the resolution down to 800x600 to check that scenerio out. After re-arranging my toolbars and such I feel that I could easily live with it, if it was the price to pay for a Tablet Pc form factor.

My typical image is 300dpi on a 10.5" wide x 6.0" tall template. And I am dealing in 8-bit grayscale or blue scale for dailies and only going to color for the Sundays (also 300dpi on 13" x 10").

Also, if someone can give me a hint on how to post an image I can show sample strips so you can more easily understand the level of "art" I am working on....Thanks again

[bmhome1]

Tedrx,

Here's another artist getting beautiful results on old-school tablet pc's:

http://sewardstreet.com/2005/01/05/tablet-pc-life-drawing/

The point is not to get too hung up on specs, rather dive in asap and get feel without high investment 1st cycle.

[schroder]

quote:Originally posted by bmhome1

Tedrx,

Here's another artist getting beautiful results on old-school tablet pc's:

http://sewardstreet.com/2005/01/05/tablet-pc-life-drawing/

The point is not to get too hung up on specs, rather dive in asap and get feel without high investment 1st cycle.


I remember I was in Vilppu's class when he first discovered the tabletpc. A student had brought it in and asked if he could use it in class. Vilppu was so impressed by it that he went and got one himself about halfway through the term. Those were Toshiba 3500's if I remember correctly. I haven't talked to him in quite some time and don't know what he uses now but it just goes to show that its not really the highest tech thats important, its really the knowledge of drawing and the software that makes it work. Your resolution is relatively high but I'm guessing your drawings are relatively simple so it should balance out. Painter might be pretty laggy on an older machine but photoshop and sketchbook should all be decent still at that resolution on most of the machines you are considering. Good luck in your search!

[TedRx]

Thank you for that link ... it is the single best image that I have seen credited to having been done 100% on a Tablet. It certainly shows that the tablet (in the right hands) is an AMAZING tool for art creation.

I have a specific question for members, Have any of you, or anyone you know, used a Fugitsu Stylistic ST4000 series for art creation?
And if so , what was the experience like?
At less than $350 used, it would be a great 'experimental' compact slate device to use, before plunging into a $800-$1500 investment.Which I MAY end up doing anyway ...boy that Gateway C140s looks purtydarngood.

Also, many times I have had people ask me WHY anyone would want to use a Tablet Pc for art creation, and I thought I'd take time here to give my thoughts.

For me, it has 100% to do with getting ONE tool to rule all the stages of development.

When I started this insane hobby, my process was to do pencil roughs, then tight pencils, then ink the image. In those stages I went from doing the roughs THEN tight pencils THEN inks, all on diffent sheets of bristol board. This process required a lightbox for transitioning the image from one sheet to another. Eventually I got to the point where I could do all 3 stages on a single sheet as most artist do ... well except for my pal Tony Harris who uses photo reference on many - but not all of his projects - which for any artist reading this post I will touch on breifly.

Suffice to say, actually seeing his work process in person helped to shift my personal opinion on how art is created. The last time I visited his studio, I saw his current Spiderman: With Great Power work, as well as his Eisner award winning ExMachina stuff too. He was using POSER along with photo-reference from his digital camera merged together to create a printer generated rough where he added 'traditional' build-ups all on the same page. This became his "rough". Then using a light-table, he put that work under his finishing sheet of bristol board where he made his polished linework image ready for inking.... so he was doing whatever to get the job done. A further aside- he is by no means limited to using photo-reference or POSER, as I witnessed one day when I saw him doing a page that was nothing but FINISHED line work on a blank sheet of paper..ie-NO ROUGHS OR BUILD UP AT ALL...talk about running the gambit of techniques.

Any way, after seeing the *potential* of computers at his studio, I felt that I would eventually have to go that way. But I was still hesitant ... until I got to the lettering and coloring stages. At that point I knew I had to have a computer to achieve my goal. My hand lettering was awful and inconsitient at best. And coloring/grayscaling in a physical medium failed for me as well.

So as I contiued down this journey, I developed a process that involved bristol boards, pencils, technical pens (if you can use a Windsor&Newton Sable hair brush - I am in awe, as I was like a monkey trying to fly the space-shuttle with it, and Crow Quills weren't much better), various template tools, erasers, then going to Kinkos to make reduced copies to scan at home (as I found a stop by Kinkos to be much easier, less time consuming and straightforward-er than trying to use cut&paste digitally), then cleaning up the black and with image, converting to CMYK, Coloring, then Lettering. By the way FONTCREATOR is awesome! Even a caveman like me created a NICE hand written font in 2 days. FAR EASIER FOR THE NOVICE THAN PHYSICALLY HAND LETTERING ... TRUST ME!

As you can see, the process was cumbersome and involved way too many tools for me, as I was going to be the total creator of the strip. Now many newspaper comic strips don't employ grayscale and as such may not need as much digital work, but the style I am after has graytones much like For-Better-Or-For-Worse, as opposed to straight black and white strips like most of my old favorites, Calvin and Hobbes, Foxtrot for example. Why grayscale? Just because ... no other reason ... well other than I think if I 'color' it that will help distract from poor draftsmanship.

So when I saw the Tablet Pc, I feel I have finally seen a SINGLE portable device to do all stages of the process with. And as I have mentioned over and over,the Laptop & Graphire set-up is affected by the dis-assocition of the pen one place and the image elsewhere. But despite that ... as an experiment one day, I decided to create a strip totally digitally. And to my amazement what had taken 4 hours the old way, now only took 2 hours (for a daily). By eliminating all the other tools and transitionary phases, the work-time was cut in half. And that was with the ackward (for me) set-up. I began to ponder how much better an experience it would be if I could draw where the image was ...

So then I began to dream of a TABLET PC !!!

Please EVERYONE feel free to add you experiences as well giving advice to my specific questions that started this post ... as the topic of Tablet Pc for Art deserves as much in-depth discussion as possible.

Lastly, as often times, people like me are driven to the forums when searching for what to buy, and then once the purchase is made they go off to create and don't come back and report results as much as we would like ... 'cause they are working on their passion. So to that end I beg all of you to report back on this post .. and If you have friend who have Tablets for art, please encourage them too.

Personally I can't wait till i make my final post on this thread where I can give a long-winded REVIEW of my personal Tablet Pc experience.

Thanks to ALL!!

[DavidBeoulve]

I do not have time to give my standard, lengthy expose, so I will tell you only this:
Tablet PC's suck for sketching because, glass or not, the sensation is effectively like drawing on glass; attempt to draw careful, controlled lines and you will see what I mean. You have to do them quickly several times to get just what you want.
I own and M200 and it's very good (the cadillac of its time) but needs more RAM. You need at least 1 gigabyte of RAM (1024x768 tablets) and 1.5 or 2 on an M200 (larger image format).
Research that you can boot your future Tablet PC using a USB CD-ROM / DVD-ROM Drive, or you will hate life. The Toshiba M200 basically only boots on a $300+ piece of crap Toshiba USB CD-ROM drive, deliberately made incompatible with normal USB drives, so you can't reformat your TPC, ever.These were the three things that killed my Tablet PC experience. They suck for anything but inking and color. They need more RAM than they come equipped with. The M200 can't be reformatted and start fresh, and I'm betting other TPC's have this problem as well.

Now that the very usable screen is still stuck to aging hardware, I regret that WACOM makes their Cintiq so impossibly expensive, because if I had one I would still be able to use it, unlike my TPC, which at the very least needs more RAM, and furthermore needs a clean install of the OS (as most Windows PC's do every 8 to 12 months due to the way the Registry works).

If you are going to buy a TPC, get a cheap one and try it out. The excitement lasted a while for me - I made almost 50 strips of my web comic, Gamers Gone Bad, before I switched jobs and had too much of a workload to continue.

[TedRx]

I'm glad you told me about that Toshiba CD boot issue. I have not seen anything about it before. Now I am not NEARLY as interested in that model ... and before your post it was in my top 3.

I guess that new Gateway C140s is looking better and better ... despite the $300 increase above my initial target price range .... especially since I read that the VISTA Tablet Pc functions have less conflict issues with Wacom drivers than the Windows XP Tablet PC does.
And that is even with the dislike of Vista I had on my initial unpleasant exposure to it while setting up my Father-in-laws system this summer.

[DavidBeoulve]

Whoa, watch out for Vista.

You know that bug, where when you play a music CD, 90% of your Internet bandwidth is hogged? That's not a bug. That's the way Microsoft verifies that the music you are listening to actually belongs to you - if you have a fast enough connection (cable-ooplex) the percentage used goes down - Vista locks that copy protection can "only" take up 90% of your bandwidth. So no listening to music and surfing for, well, anyone.

But the best approach is to look at the cost / benefit analysis. Fortunately, someone with a PHd in computer science has already done that.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

That said, it might not steer you clear of Vista, but you owe it to yourself to go into that wedding with your eyes open.

[DavidBeoulve]

Oh and, I don't own, but have a friend who owns a TPC with Vista, and so that's where I get my direct experience from. He had enough trouble with it that he tried to see if he could reformat his TPC with my old copy of Windows XP TPC edition, but never followed up on that so I assume that proved too much of a hassle as well. He is not an artist, however, and likes to use his TPC as a computer that he can write on. Different usage.

[TedRx]

Thanks for the added Vista info.

As for me, and the tablet I would be using, the amount of music content played would be ZERO.

As I have gotten older, I don't find myself listening to music much anymore, not even in the car I drive. I mostly stick to Talk Radio. And the ONLY MP3 uses I have, is downloading and listening to my FAVORITE talk Show COAT TO COAST AM. I got hooked on it since I work nightshift at work, and being alone all night it keeps the mind stimulated, to say the least. It, for me, harkens back to old time radio where the mind is stimulated by stories. Mostly on COAST, it is paranormal, aliens, past civilizations, the future of the future, and conspiracy focused with interviewed guest telling thier stories. And as long as they sound as though THEY believe what they are talking about, it is entertaining. So I miss it when I am not at work and download shows I want to hear that I missed. Also my wife has gotten used to listening to the shows too. So it would be nice to have those mp3's running aloud while working on comicstrips, but I could always stay with my current desktop for download and mp3 player for listening , as I do now.

Does anyone know what would happen with a TIVO-TO-GO show ... especially since if i watch them it would be when I had NO connection to internet for VISTA to verify authenticty.

Anyone else outthere doing art on a VISTA tablet to give feedback ??

And i am still loking for people who use the Fugitsu St4000 slate for art to give thier info.

As well as any artist to answer the original questions i posted in the first post of this thread ....

Thanks!

[schroder]

I do most of my artwork on a tablet actually including the rough sketching. The glass screen effect I get around by using a anti-glare screen protector which adds a layer of finely textured silicon/plastic stuff and if thats still not enough you can switch to Wacom felt nibs which will increase the friction on the screen dramatically. Some machines such as the Lenovo X60 and X61s have screens that have already been etched to give a similar textured feel. I agree that RAM needs to be maxed in order to have a smooth sketching experience for the most part. I've reformatted a HP TC4200 with an external USB drive without any problems so it can work. I do know that only certain drives can be used but there are some other than the manufacturer options which are cheaper (mine was sub-$100).

The primary advantage of working digitally is layers, undo, scale/rotate tools, and cut/paste. As well as less clutter and ability to carry your entire art production studio in a backpack. I have been working in vista for the last 4 months and while there have been some problems (mostly hardware driver related), I have got it all sorted out at this point and everything is working fairly well. I have a co worker though who is having a lot of problems and wants to revert to XP as well. XP is safer as its tried and true. I think if you have a decent amount of technical knowledge and willingness to tinker you can get a vista box set up working well but its not worth the hassle for many.

[Shogmaster]

The thing about Vista or not to Vista with your Tablet PC is rather simple: What art apps do you use? If all you use if Sketchbook Pro, then you don't need to go Vista at all. Sketchbook Pro uses Microsoft's native tablet driver. Everything will work swimmingly.

But if your art apps rely on Wacom's tablet driver, then you will have pressure lag during your strokes with XP:Tablet Edition. This is why I have to use Vista with my TPC, and have gave up on XP:TE (even though I have 2 licenses).

[TedRx]

Hey ShogMaster !!!

Glad to see you showed up ... I really appreciate it.

Currently I use Corel PhotoShop X3, but I am very willing to venture over to SketchBook Pro if necessary.

After all these years on a Tablet Pc, what is overall satisfaction level with Tablet Pcs? Would you say the are 'good enough' to work with and a better form factor than my old Laptop/graphire tablet set up?

Also, thanks for the lead on the Gateway c140s i saw you give on another posting. It is under $800 ... and looks very acceptable, with the only noticeable compromise being another $300 (small price for NEW) and being on the 6+ lbs size (but a 14" screen ... probably worth it also)

Are you using the gateway C140x now, and how is it compared to your older smaller screens.

Thanks

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by TedRx

Hey ShogMaster !!!

Glad to see you showed up ... I really appreciate it.

No prob. I didn't even know the Buzz was back up. Thanks for reminder.


quote:Currently I use Corel PhotoShop X3, but I am very willing to venture over to SketchBook Pro if necessary.

You CANNOT use Corel PhotoShop and expect any halfway decent drawing responsiveness out of it. Just forget about it. It's just too slow and cumbersome in that respect. You have to either go Sketchbook Pro (2.0 is the current version), or Corel's other product, Painter (X is the latest version) to get the kind of sophistication in line quality with your drawings that will make your TPC art experience a satisfactory one.


quote:After all these years on a Tablet Pc, what is overall satisfaction level with Tablet Pcs? Would you say the are 'good enough' to work with and a better form factor than my old Laptop/graphire tablet set up?

If your art relies heavily on doing line art, you can't go back to regular tablets after using TPC or Cintiq. My satisfaction level with TPC is "can't live without". I simply don't want to think about a scenario where I have to do without it.


quote:Also, thanks for the lead on the Gateway c140s i saw you give on another posting. It is under $800 ... and looks very acceptable, with the only noticeable compromise being another $300 (small price for NEW) and being on the 6+ lbs size (but a 14" screen ... probably worth it also)

Are you using the gateway C140x now, and how is it compared to your older smaller screens.

Thanks


I have NEVER seen the C-140 series in person, so I really can't give you any kind of reliable opinion on the thing except for what I see in the specs. I can tell you that having a bigger screen is rather important for doing better drawings in my case. I find anything smaller than 12" too constricting to draw well on.

I currently use the Toshiba R25 and the only thing I find wanting is little more horsepower (Mine is only 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo). The rest I'm quite happy with. The thing that Gateway will be smart to do with the C-140 is to offer a 1440x900 LCD option like my R25 has. 1280x768 is on the low side.

P.S. Apparently, there is a coupon code that takes the C-140S down another $30 right now. That's $769 + tax for a brand new 14" convertible TPC! Ridiculous!!

[TedRx]

correction :

I said Corel PhotoShop ... guess it was a wishfull slip (dreaming of Adobe PhotoShop), What i meant was Corel PhotoPaint X3 from the CorelDraw X3 Suite.

I also have CorelDraw Suite 7 (from like a decade ago) that contains a PhotoPaint 7 that i ran back on my Windows 95/98 computers. And I know the Newer version has pressure sensitivity, but (please no cringing or screaming please) I don't use that feature. I just pick nib sizes and Transparency levels for my 'simple' line-work. So I'm thinking, if that ran ok on my 10 year old computers, couldn't it run acceptable on a *only* 3-4 year old tablet Pc?

...but still that Gateway is getting better by the minute ... weighs more but gives a 14" screen and built in Optical drives ... for under $800 ... i'd PROBABLY be stupid not to use that as my entry level tablet Pc ... wouldn't I?

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by TedRx

correction :

I said Corel PhotoShop ... guess it was a wishfull slip (dreaming of Adobe PhotoShop), What i meant was Corel PhotoPaint X3 from the CorelDraw X3 Suite.

I also have CorelDraw Suite 7 (from like a decade ago) that contains a PhotoPaint 7 that i ran back on my Windows 95/98 computers. And I know the Newer version has pressure sensitivity, but (please no cringing or screaming please) I don't use that feature. I just pick nib sizes and Transparency levels for my 'simple' line-work. So I'm thinking, if that ran ok on my 10 year old computers, couldn't it run acceptable on a *only* 3-4 year old tablet Pc?

Yeah, that's the one. I downloaded the trial couple of versions ago (after it went to X IIRC). It was stinky slow with most brushes. It was Corel's mainstay art app before they purchased Painter from Meta Creations (sorta poor man's Photoshop). Now it had lost it's aim IMO.


quote:...but still that Gateway is getting better by the minute ... weighs more but gives a 14" screen and built in Optical drives ... for under $800 ... i'd PROBABLY be stupid not to use that as my entry level tablet Pc ... wouldn't I?



I'd say yes. I think it's an excellent way to enter the art TPC world, unless there is some big design flaws in that model.

[schroder]

I own the new gateway C140 and it is an excellent machine. I have owned the Toshiba M200, R25, Fujitsu ST5020, HP TC4200, and now the Gateway C140. The gateway holds up very well, it was surprisingly high quality and has great speed and value. Viewing angles are similar to the R25/M7 screens in that it is better than they used to be but still not on par with the Motion VA screens and the like. Good enough for me though, I am quite happy with it and have used it on a few professional projects start to finish now. I still prefer to do color work and complex painting on my cintiq but theres no reason not to sketch on a tabletpc imo.

[TedRx]

Yes the gateway is gaining momentum ...

Schroder, I am curious as to how does the CONVERTIBLE 6+ lbs of the Gateway seem to compare to the SLATE of the ST5020. As in portability, is the weight and thickness a *real* factor for you. I can look at specs all day long but 40%+ weight and 100%+ thickness MAY not be as big a deal in real world applications. So are they MAJOR differences for you , or just a statistical difference that is unlikely, in the big picture, to be a deal maker/breaker?

Also, still looking for Artist using, or have had used, Fugitsu St 4000 series as well.

[schroder]

Well the way I draw on it it makes very little difference. I use it with the bottom edge on my lap and the top edge on a table or other hard surface, much the same way you would draw with those big 18x24" pads of paper that we all had to use in life drawing classes. I've also used painting stands and easels to hold up the computer while working. In this context it doesn't really matter how heavy or thick it is because you're not really supporting it or using it like a piece of paper on a table. If I were to use it while standing up for long periods of time certainly the slate would win every time. But the fact of the matter is I use it sitting down at a desk or drafting table the majority of the time and can set things up so it works for me. Your working situations may vary.

[TedRx]

That is very informative and useful real world stuff I wanted to know. Especially since I don't stand and draw at the same time either (I'd have to master that whole chewing gum and walking at same time thing first.

I usually work at a counter (at work on break), table (kitchen or art desk) or in bed reclined. So from what I gather from you, the weight wouldn't be an issue .... now only to get up to the price point of the C140s ... now only $749 after $100 instant rebate and $50 instanat coupon ... add shipping and handling (no warranty - living dangerously) brings it to about $830 TOTAL !!!

Last question for you Schroder,
I just watched at GOTTABEMOBILE.COM a video review of the business version of the C140x and noticed the tilt on flat surface 'feature' resulting form the battery 'lump', and I was wanting to know if you can change orientation such that the 'lump' is at the top of the screen when in widescreen mode (creating a tilt toward you, instead of an awkward away from the artist)?

[DavidBeoulve]

Ted, if that TPC comes with XP, I'd go for it. That sounds like a great deal.

And as Schroder said, weight is an issue when you are carrying it. You can't carry and draw - you need a stable surface. That said, lugging it around a lot a few less pounds would help - but I'm not sure that's the difference in weight we're looking at.

Also, if it's TPC XP, you pretty much need a keyboard for when you want to write an e-mail. TPC Vista recognizes handstrokes much better.

[TedRx]

The weight, the more I think about it is less and less of an issue, Especially since I used to carry a 14" widescreen laptop AND Wiacom Tablet as my set up (laptop alone was in the 6+lb range)
AND
since I am stationary when working and have a solid surface to place the TPC on while drawing. Also the 'lugging around' factor shouldn't matter much since I am not using as it I journey/trek by foot for long time or distances through out my day, as a Student, insurance person, or actively moving health care worker would. (Even though I am in health-care, I work at pre-determined workstations) The Tablet Pc would only have to travel by foot less than 30 yards at a time such as from parking-lot into work area for break-time and back, or from Kitchen to den to bedroom to art-desk, all with-in one habitat.

So far I now have narrowed down my choice to 2 extremes:

#1- Used EBAY Fugitsu Stylistic ST 4000 series ($300)
pros: IMMEDIATE entry into tabletPc world, PRICE risk is low, weight, small size, acceptable resolution (what I am used to already), SLATE format, Windows Xp Tablet Pc OS.

cons: unknown risk of used system, battery life of used system, small work area@ 10" display, slower processor than I am used to (but I am willing to accept a slower work speed for form-facter of slate), shorter expected life-span, no optical drive onboard, no keyboard onboard, Windows Xp OS (yeah, it is a pro AND a con, depends on who you ask ... ditto Vista)


#2 - NEW Gateway c140s ($820)
pros: -NEW system and a warranty, Battery life much better,
Work area is much larger @ 14"(resolution same, or close to slate's)
-Even at base C140S level- it would be the most advanced
processor/ram I have actually worked on, so should be
atleast similar if not better at processing speeds. Convertible format with attached keyboard and onboard optical drives, Windows Vista OS

cons: - size, not a slate, thicker, cost more delaying a little bit my purchase, aslo more spent so more dollar risk. Windows Vista OS

Basically one model's pro is the other one's cons ... and both run WINDOWS OS's so that is OVERALL a wash.

Verdict:
Gateway if b-day and Christmas money is enough to get me to the price point ....
Stylistic if not ...


Also, PLEASE ANYONE READING this post take a little time and please add your thoughts and comments if you have done art on a STYLISTIC ST4000 series or GATEWAY c140 Series !!!!

And even if you do not have these 2 models but are a Tablet Pc Artist, please add you thoughts to this thread... one day ther WILL be a dedicated TABLET PC FOR ARTIST place, but till then finding threads like this one is the best place to get info ... for now

Even if it is months or years after this post starts. It will be greatly valued, as I personally have read and still read post from as far back as 4 years from my current posting in late 2007

THANKS TO ALL ... KEEP IT COMING!!

[schroder]

Yes you can rotate the screen to all four orientations, with the bottom of the screen on any edge of the machine. I have yet to try it to see if there are any calibration problems, I'll try to do this later today to see if everything works normally.

Regarding your two extremes, I would really be wary of those old fujitsu slates. They will have relatively poor screens, battery life, and power for what you want to use them for. They are using Pentium III processors instead of Centrino which was really a huge jump for laptop computing. I would say with a quick perusal of ebay, your low end should actually be the Toshiba M4 or even the venerable HP TC1100. You may also want to keep an eye on the classified forums at this site, gottabemobile, and tabletpcreview. I bought my first machine on the classified section of this forum. While its not for everyone, you can find deals and a better selection sometimes of older machines than you can on ebay.

[TedRx]

I NEVER even thought about the classifieds ..thanks!

[DavidBeoulve]

"one day ther WILL be a dedicated TABLET PC FOR ARTIST place"

You know I whined for that, rather evocatively, 3 years ago, and nobody listened. Stupid. A niche that can't be served well in any other place, yet is intricately tied to Tablet PC's, deserves a forum even if few people go there.

[TedRx]

Agreed!!!!

A single site dedicated to just Tablet Pc Art Creation would be a dream resource come true.

I would LOVE to see discussion about the use, not just the purchase , of Tablet Pc for Art. Just think if EVERY Tablet Pc Artist spent 1-2 hours to gather their thoughts and experiences and put them out there in ONE PLACE for all to see, how much of an info explosion there would be, and then if they updated just once a year, or when upgrading hardware/software .... it would become THE RESOURCE on the whole web!

I salivate just thinking about threads that could be there, you know the type of discussions that go into nuances of dpi's, image tpye (tiff,jpeg, pdf), publishing info, website creation/maintence info, a Thorough area for Tablet Pc Art posting, techniques, and indepth workprocesses within the software program(s) used by each artist.

And My personal desire, a bunch of discussion on how people used to do art creation, and now do it with the use or assistance of Tablet Pc (do they still use pencil/paper and then import to tablet, photo-refernce intergration, etc). Any insight in to the work process of a Tablet Pc Artist is just invaulable.

I think of how little Tablet Pc has been promoted. Many digital artist don't even think about using a TabPc. Any one who has read Scott McCloud's excellent books on (comic) art understanding and producing, has seen the page in his last book where he touches on digital tools and production , yet at he end he muses about having one tool for all stages of digital art production that was a portable as a sketch pad .... this though at that time even the highly acclaimed M200 was being used successfully by members posting here and elsewhere. And even I was AWARE of the TABLET PC.

The Tablet Pc IS the FUTURE of art production, it is just that other artist don't know it yet ... either that or they are waiting a newer type tablet Pc where you can get a higher quality Cintiq type screen that is a detachable part where you can easily upgradeable/swap out the computing guts part to keep the lifecyle of the screen almost as long as what the Cintiq enjoys now, but with all the portability of a current Tablet Pc. (maybe even a battery powered WiFi/WiMax Cintiq for local home or studio use developed from Tablet Pc knowledge)

Either way, what we know now is the Tablet Pc form-factor is the foundation of the computer interface future (art and otherwise) and I applaud EVERYONE of you first-gen adopters, most of whom put down big bucks early and put up with issues found in early development products for a game-changing piece of hardware/software combination devices. (Think of car cell-phones of 1984).

Keep the comments coming ... more is better

TedRx

[Shogmaster]

Regarding a dedicated art section, as someone who's been using Wacom based LCD tablets for 7 years, I've been begging for such a place since TPC forums started popping up on the net.

We'll see.

BTW TedRX, Forget about the ST4000. You don't want to spend any money on a Pentium 3 based system in 2007 unless all you intend to do is surf the net and do some word processing.

[Peregrine]

I have a Gateway C-140x that I draw on every day. There are some short comings to creating art on a tablet PC, but that can be said for every medium, electronic or otherwise. For me the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Before the C-140x I had a Toshiba M200, which I used primarily for storyboarding a movie that was shooting in Eastern Europe and Northern Africa, and doing post production in various parts of Europe. The great advantage of it was (as I think Schroder put it) I could carry my entire art studio in a back pack. I drew storyboards in various productions offices, production vehicles, airports, airplanes and occasionally on the Eurostar going back and forth between London and Paris. I was able to take digital photographs of a location, and sitting in a small cafe in Solvakia during our lunch break, inport them into Photoshop and paint in what the Art Department would have to add to the set.

I've also used my computers for Grahic Novels projects in between paying jobs. I recently inked a comic book page while sitting in the waiting room of my doctor's office.

I've worked (so far) entirely in Photoshop, primarily because it is the program I know best. I'm not overly computer literate, but I love working on tablet PCs and try to encourage other artists to do so. The more of us out there, the more programs will be written for our needs.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by Peregrine

I have a Gateway C-140x that I draw on every day. There are some short comings to creating art on a tablet PC, but that can be said for every medium, electronic or otherwise. For me the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Before the C-140x I had a Toshiba M200, which I used primarily for storyboarding a movie that was shooting in Eastern Europe and Northern Africa, and doing post production in various parts of Europe. The great advantage of it was (as I think Schroder put it) I could carry my entire art studio in a back pack. I drew storyboards in various productions offices, production vehicles, airports, airplanes and occasionally on the Eurostar going back and forth between London and Paris. I was able to take digital photographs of a location, and sitting in a small cafe in Solvakia during our lunch break, inport them into Photoshop and paint in what the Art Department would have to add to the set.

I've also used my computers for Grahic Novels projects in between paying jobs. I recently inked a comic book page while sitting in the waiting room of my doctor's office.

I've worked (so far) entirely in Photoshop, primarily because it is the program I know best. I'm not overly computer literate, but I love working on tablet PCs and try to encourage other artists to do so. The more of us out there, the more programs will be written for our needs.


Photoshop obviously is crucial to any digital artist's arsenal, but I really think you should invest the $90 or whatever Autodesk charges for the discount version of Sketchbook Pro 2.0. You'll see subtle line quality and sophistication in your sketches that you were never able to achieve with Photoshop. And it allows you to use your TPC in slate mode without the aid of the keyboard as well, which is nice when you want to get a little less cumbersome with your sketching.

[TedRx]

Thanks for joining the site and I'm glad the thread gotcha out in the forums Peregrine!!!!

We are privildged to have your first post here.

It is nice to see someone new to the site, especially someone who has been at it as long as you have since the m200, attesting to the usefulness of the TabPc.

As you said, every medium has it's pros and cons, but the TabPc being a ONE TOLL TO RULE THEM ALL (THEM being the various different stages of the creation process) is a definite plus ... and it WILL only get better.

I would LOVE to see that inked page you did at your MD waiting area ... or any of the TabPc created Graphic Novel stuff you've done. If you can't post it (as I have yet to figue it out, hence the absence of my hobby work) PLEASE email me a sample. (email through clicking on my profile and choosing email option)

Also, your thoughts on going all portable-digital versus your previous pen/paper route would be nice as well.

And hey ShogMaster,
can you post, link , or email me something you did in SketchBook Pro ... I am intrigued by it ever since I have observed that it is almost attached at the hip with TabPc Art talk ... especially after viewing a video on a post the other day where someone had a speeded-up video of art creation on their TabPc and they were using SketchBook.

[Peregrine]

I lied when I said I work entirely in Photoshop. I recently downloaded Sketchbook Pro and used it on a short job (storyboarding a commercial). It's a great drawing program! Not sure what I'll use it for in the future, although probably not storyboards. I use the keyboard almost as much as the stylus when I work (for keystroke shortcuts and adding scene discription and sound FXs).

My life's ambition is to get rid of the lag when drawing in Photoshop. I've installed Tabtip-Tamer, which helps (it made a big difference when I put it on my old M200) but hasn't entirely solved the problem. Actually I may have lied again when I said this is my life's ambition. But it's on my list just below curing cancer and ending global warming.

TedRx, I'm not sure how to post drawings (as I said, I'm not that computer literate), but if I get a chance I'll e-mail you something.

[TedRx]

YES !!!
I would love to see some TabPcArt , both PhotoShop and Sketchbook so if possible drop me an email ... and I have High speed so anything under 4MB usually does fine.

Thanks for the input too ...

I am curious, what was the disadvantages of your M200 that led to the new gateway??

And for those of you keeping up ... if I can score the $$$$ I'm gonna get The GatewayC140s for $830 at thier website, and I encourage all of you looking to jump into TabPcArt to do the same ... THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER DEAL NEW ... or really even used from what I can see.

Also, Don't be bashfully ya'll .... posting ain't painful ... and we would ALL love to hear from YOU!

THANKS!

[Peregrine]

I went from the M200 to the C-140x mostly to get a bigger screen, which means a larger drawing surface. At the same time I got a faster processor, bigger hard drive and more memory.

I got started drawing on a computer about six years ago when my wife gave me a Wacom tablet as a Christmas present. It stayed in the box for several months before I pulled it out and plugged it in. After that there was no turning back. People asked me if it was difficult to learn how to draw on a tablet while looking at the computer screen, and I would answer: not nearly as difficult as learning to paint with water colors or draw with pastel. (The hardest part is not being able to rotate the tablet to a position that is comfortable for your wrist, the way we instinctively do when drawing on a piece of paper).

When I got the M200 I was taking a risk. I couldn't find any tablet PC forums at that time, and knew no one else who was using a convertable notebook for art. The big question I had was whether or not I could get the kind of pressure sensitivity on a tablet PC as I enjoyed on the Wacom tablets. I suffered two weeks of aggravation, on the phone with tech support for Wacom, Toshiba and Photoshop, before I got it to work.

Now I'm surprised every artist isn't using them.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by Peregrine

I lied when I said I work entirely in Photoshop. I recently downloaded Sketchbook Pro and used it on a short job (storyboarding a commercial). It's a great drawing program! Not sure what I'll use it for in the future, although probably not storyboards. I use the keyboard almost as much as the stylus when I work (for keystroke shortcuts and adding scene discription and sound FXs).

My life's ambition is to get rid of the lag when drawing in Photoshop. I've installed Tabtip-Tamer, which helps (it made a big difference when I put it on my old M200) but hasn't entirely solved the problem. Actually I may have lied again when I said this is my life's ambition. But it's on my list just below curing cancer and ending global warming.

TedRx, I'm not sure how to post drawings (as I said, I'm not that computer literate), but if I get a chance I'll e-mail you something.


The lag in Photoshop will go away if you use it under Vista. Tab Tip tamer won't do anything. I tired it. XP:TE is the curprit.

Anyways, I'm on a vacation and don't have access to my files so I did a quickish sketch on the SBP 2.0 for you TedRX. Hopefully it helps.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/SBPtest.jpg

[TedRx]

Peregrine, I agree ... I don't know why the TabPc hasn't achieved atleast a 20-30% use in the art field, especially those using digital tools like PhotoShop.

ShogMaster, if that is what you call a 'quickish sketch', then PLEASE link up or post a FINISHED piece in the next couple of weeks. I loved it! (heck if I had done that, I would'a been so proud that i'd hang it on my wall) .... so thanks for being so gracious as to help out a hobby novice like me.

I do have one question about Sketchbook ... does it have a 100%CYMK black line color available in order to do 'finished inks' in a higher layer, or do you import the sketch to Photo to finish out ... AND can you color in it?

[DavidBeoulve]

Coloring in Sketchbook isn't any fun because you can't do color fills. However, drawing on multiple layers works just fine - you just make invisible the ones you don't want Photoshop to see before you import it because PS doesn't understand Sketchbook layering.

[DavidBeoulve]

Duh, how do I edit?

I forgot to mention, I use Sketchbook Pro almost exclusively. All of my drawings start there, at the very least. If I color them, they move to Photoshop. I keep my TPC in slate mode and hook up a USB keyboard for shortcuts. I haven't bothered to do that in over a year - I just use Sketchbook and draw the way I draw on paper - black and white.

[TedRx]

Don't feel bad ... I haven't figured out EDIT or IMAGE INSERT ..

No color fills would require me to do *real* coloring ... might be for the best though. Or an 'easy' finish-up in Photo.

So I guess there are 100%CYMK black lines available ...

Now how about BALLONING & LETTERING available in Sketchbook pro?

[TedRx]

Also, DAVID , I tried to click on the GAMERSGONEBAD link in your signature but can't get any where ... can you give the site address ..

[DavidBeoulve]

GamersGoneBad.com: That is the site address. I own the domain, but as a father of four, once my college chum shut down his web server, I've had no wherewithal to pay a monthly fee to host it.

As for CMYK... I don't think Sketchbook understands this. Everything is probably in RGB format. You'd have to take a deeper look at the TIFF files it produces.

That said, unlike COLOR, black should be black, no? I mean, the conversion there is unlike converting RGB red, which appears at a certain brightness on a computer monitor, and doesn't translate well to "ink saturation level" on paper...

[TedRx]

sorry to hear about the site ... i know schroder on this thread told me his site runs about $10 a month, but with the kids and all, that may too much (having kids and a wife, I understand).

And as far as BLACK goes, I didn't think there was a difference either (even on screens, not just real printed ink) but I have found a subtle but , for me , distinct differnce in the end product ... that said, doing line work in sketch and then converting to 100%CMYK BLACK in Photo ain't too bad of an added step, as I have had to do this already when converting scanned bitmapp line work into CMYK for coloring.

I hope all of ya'll have a great THANKSGIVING tommorrow and rest assured on my list of things I am thankful for this year will be 'being thankful for this thread and posted comments and images from each of you'

Ok I have mention this again ... if you are reading this and you are a TabPcArtist ..... I want to hear from YOU!!

[TedRx]

Happy Thanksgiving !!!

[TedRx]

An aside for any Artist out there trying to do a project all on thier own, including publishing on the Web ....

I just got an early Christmas present from my best friend Edward who is a hobby artist as well. It is a book titled "WEBCOMICS - tools and techniques for digital cartooning" , in my case from Barnes&Noble online.

I highly recommend it for anyone who is new to the idea of digital intergration in illustration and/or sequential art. It gives good examples from various WEBCOMIC creators on thier unique work processes, each intergrating digital tools in different level and ways ... from just publishing a scanned pysical piece of art, to totally computer created work.

[DavidBeoulve]

I had heard of the book but had assumed, incorrectly, that it wouldn't be useful. I'm glad it's good stuff.

Now if we can just take up the old, dusty Holy Banner of "TabletPCbuzz.com needs an Art Forum" we'll have something fun to wrangle with all of this knowledge.

[TedRx]

David,
I couldn't agree more!!
Thankfully the site is asking what can be done to improve it ... my suggestion was to have a forums section based on what people did with thier TabPc, such as TabPc Artist ....

So please reply everyone to the topic:
http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36363

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL OF YOU WANTING A TABLET PC ARTIST FORUM TO SPEAK-UP AND BE HEARD!!!

[TedRx]

Update ---

Ordered my TabPc today ...
Shipped today ...

I got a Motion M1400 with ViewAnywhere screen used on Ebay for under $500 total. Coming with keyboard but not the much coveted keyboard cover ... will aquire one of those on Ebay soon.

I went with this for Price, Screen Viewability and Slate form factor (Light, thin, "does not look like a laptop computer" stealth) which just screams "art tablet" to me.

Mostly due to Chad Essley (CartoonMonkey) who in a recent review of a new(er) TabPc concluded that his M1400 was still state-of-the-Art ... nice endorsement from someone who uses a TabPc for art everyday.

Review to follow ...

[bmhome1]

There's a LCD cover right now on eBay for $20. Search using Gateway M1300 for wider selection of parts.

You'll love the 1400, do get a Targus Tornado USB Cooling Pad for long hours AC usage. Without fans, the 1300-1400's get very hot and resultant slowdown from heat protection CPU underclocking happens quickly and significantly. Targus is dimensional match.

I run Vista exceptionally well on my M1300 (1Gz, 2GB RAM, 7200rpm drive) for PSCS2 and PSCS3 and even Lightroom 1.3.1. It's all in the details. If your 1400 didn't come with XP Recovery disks, there won't be much choice.

btw, the 1400 will boot from most any USB CD drive, as long as externally powered. Forget firewire booting, never worked for me.

Good resource:

http://mobilepcwiki.org/mpc/index.php?title=Motion/M1400/Windows_Vista_Installation_Notes

[John Hill]

If you just need the screen cover (not the keyboard that also acts as a cover), email me - I have one sitting around the office.

[Billzilla]

TedRx, please keep us updated on your experience with the M1400. I have really been researching the pros and cons of various tablet models and desire pretty much the exact same things out of one that you do- the ultimate goal being to produce a graphic novel.

I would appreciate in particular if you could test out Illustrator CS3, as that's what I use primarily on my desktop. I also would much prefer to get a slate style over a convertible style for all the same reasons you listed and was angered to know how much that limited my options- especially on a budget.

I'm extremely amused to note that I had just come to the conclusion that I'd be happiest with the Motion M1400 a couple of days ago. I've lurking on this thread for some time, and I had feared had died without giving me a resolution as to which tablet you decided on. Now not only have you returned, but you've come to the same conclusions I have.

Would certainly be interested in checking out whatever work you produce with your new toy and am hungrily watching the M1400 auction that'll have me a M1400 shipped with 1GB of RAM for a bit under $600.

[bmhome1]

Here's must-haves for ever-elusive real-time stylus response without lags (essential for brush strokes far more demanding than simple lines rendering, the wider the task) at best prices:

2GB RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145068

7200rpm hard drive:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100528-1

Compensates for 1Gz CPU's in 1300-1400 Motions.

Relentless guarding against system resources drag other key component. Watch out for lousy anti-virus (choose Kaspersky or NOD32 instead) performers, auto-updaters and other backround processes pulling down precious CPU cycles at worst possible moments.

Demands of rendering brushes with smooth flow can be incredibly affected by OS tuning. Defragging frequently keeping % single digits and everything necessary minimizing hard drive activity (Motion's drive LED invaluable tool) by system both essential. Temp files can be gigantic and writing and reading from hard drive contiguous free space plentiful also maintains speed.

2GB RAM ensures OS and large programs run without virtual memory/paging slowdown. Setting as fixed size 3056MB from default dynamic sizing (for 2GB RAM) helps. The idea is to create lean and mean system for older, modest tablet specs handling the tasks well.

Additionally, the older the program version one can still use, the lower the minimums. Don't expect acceptable performance latest versions require when minimum specs now far exceed earlier versions. Most new features are layered with added drag to consider using 3-5 year old hardware.

Photoshop CS3 runs on my 1300, but palpable overall slower than CS2. If PS6 could handle my RAW files, I'd be using that.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by bmhome1

Here's must-haves for ever-elusive real-time stylus response without lags (essential for brush strokes far more demanding than simple lines) at best prices:

2GB RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145068

7200rpm hard drive:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100528-1

Compensates for 1Gz CPU's in 1300-1400 Motions.


Even with 2GB or 4GB of RAM, you'll still get lag with Wacom driver apps in XP:TE. The only real solution is regular XP (which is really pointless on a Tablet PC) or Vista.

And hard drive has nothing to do with the lag.

[bmhome1]

Five years ago 7200rpm drives for laptops often were doubted as beneficial to performance, few debate still. Ask X41 owners how the inking was with CPU pegged at 100% reading and writing pagefile from miserable 1.8" drives. Even Lenovo dropped that notion.

Try a 7200rpm drive to help your lag issues.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by bmhome1

Five years ago 7200rpm drives for laptops often were doubted as beneficial to performance, few debate still. Ask X41 owners how the inking was with CPU pegged at 100% reading and writing pagefile from miserable 1.8" drives. Even Lenovo dropped that notion.

Try a 7200rpm drive to help your lag issues.




A). I have no lag issues. I have Vista. I tracked down the exact cause of the lag to XP:TE + Wacom penabled driver conflict a year ago and made plenty of posts about it. There is no if's and's or but's about this. I have proof:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/BtrackXPTE.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/BrushTracking.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/TPCvWacom.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/P9TPCtestXPpro.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/Painter9Vista.jpg

B). Faster hard drive will only help when you are reading or writing files to it. Obviously, making marks with your pen should not be doing either of that. If your machine is chugging because you are out of RAM and you are paging your hard drive all the time, then lag from your pen is the last of your problems.

Suggesting solving pen lag with faster hard drive is akin to solving your car engine's pinging and knocking problem with upgrading the transmission. Yes, a better transmission will make your car faster, but your problem isn't the transmission, it's your engine! You need a tune up, not replacement of the tranny.

C). Seriously, I'm beginning to feel like a broken record. If you notice a lag in pen strokes for your favorite art apps that uses Wacom's driver for pressure sensitivity support, and you are using XP:Tablet Edition, the culprit is not your hard drive, nor the amount of RAM (although too little is always bad idea and will obviously effect performance), but the conflict between Wacom driver and XP:TE.

[TedRx]

Thanks for everyone still reading and posting!!

This thread won't be dead for me atleast until my final Recap and Review ... which I am rough drafting even before the TabPc arrives ... and it will be HUGE post .. so be patient everyone.

--&gt;&gt;&gt; can someone teach me how to post images and hyperlinks?? It will help out tremendously ... or could I build the post in WORD and just copy and paste it and the images and links carry over?

BHHOME1 - Will the M1400 hold 2gb Ram? ... I thought it was maxed at 1gb ... if it'll hold it, I'll get that installed asap!!

And I do fully intend on making this TabPc LEAN ... I am going to dig and purge everything other than my bare minimum processes.

Also, I'll be checking out Tip-Tamer from that CartoonMonkey guy too ...

I found my M1400 on Ebay but it wasn't under Motion or M1400 in search , rather only found via a search for broad description Tablet Pc in Computers section, It was (and there still are others on the same batch available) a BuyItNow $422 PLUS SHIPPING. It does have the VA screen but is listed as wide-angle in the product description. It *only* has 512mb, but RAM upgrade DIY is easy and cheap , so don't go for high priced product just because of RAM alone ... save the dough and DoItYourself.

Also, in the future if ANYONE has a question and this topic, or any other, seems dead, just go to member profile and send a email thru the website , even if the topic is still live, but you would like a little more communication a little off topic or whatever ... I know I wouldn't mind it, and i have talked to many members this way ... and other artist who have their own art websites ... I have found most TabPcers and Web published artist to be a very friendly bunch .. sometimes it may take a little while to hear back, but i usually do here from them ... after all Digital Art, Digital SelfPublishing and TabPcs are things people are PASSIONATE about.

And whether it is PASSION or OBSESSION .... I will see this TabPc experience thru to the bloody end ... and all of you reading please feel free to post along.

As far as doing a graphic novel on TabPc, that is something I wish I had the talent for, so I wish you the best!! Hopefully in my recap there will be added info just for the graphic artist bunch since I will include knowledge of digital comic production that I have gleaned first hand and from my friends in the comics world.

Just a brief comics production aside--&gt;&gt; recently I visited my friend Ray Snyder (currently inker on Supergirl) and saw a bit of digital advancement in production. As of today, there is NO need for physical paper to be shipped from any of the separate creators on the art team. First the writer emails the script to editor, after approval it gets emailed to penciller, then he can scans it and email it to the inker who can then converts the gray pencils to non-repo blue lines and print out on high quality bristol boards 11x17 on his printer at his studio/home and then inks it, then scans inked pages and emails to colorist, who when done emails to letter, all the while editor is emailed at every stage to stay better on top of work issues. This also results in a new market for comics collectors ... un-inked origianl pencils for sale by the artist, as well as inked pages. This doubles the amount of "original" art for sale (in this case the penciller and inker swap around the pages so both have pencils and inks to offer for sale, but instaed of 11 out of 22 pages for an issue, they each have 22 !) Just another part of the digital art creation revolution ... even for those not in the world of TabPcs yet.

Hopefully my M1400 will arrive in days ...

Thanks for reading and Posting!

And special thanks for the Screen Cover offer... That made my Day!!

Ps. I can't find Chad Essley's Slate Shootout review anymore ... all links , be it from CartoonMonkey or GottaBeMobile or here end up going to a "dead space". Would any of you happen to have a good link or a COPY of the review you could link us too? ...

[TedRx]

Billzilla -
please check out "WEBCOMICS - tools and techniques for digital cartooning" ...

especially if you are going to do your graphic novel solo ...

it is a good resource for the DIY crowd, as I have found out when you do it all it can be very fun, rewarding BUT laborsome ... the creators in the book go into thier workflow process and explain where they make compromises worth making for the sake of trying to get thier projects done single handedly.

CERTAIN things are worth doing for them such as computer lettering instead of hand lettering. And/Or also skipping the lengthy inking process and substituting it with a pencils converted to black linework step. The resulting line quality may not be a slick, but the basic structure is there to color upon ... and after coloring and image reduction to print or web resolution, the lack of eloquent inks is lessened to an 'acceptable' level.

This is not say inking isn't valuable or contributing but just to say if you pencil (physical or digital) in a certain manner, then it can save you time from inking the lines. For many it allows them to produce a COLOR product vs a Black&White product because for them it is a time-resource decision choice of Inking or Coloring, since they are the whole team.

[TedRx]

Update --
I found this review *finally*
http://pencomputing.com/frames/tpc_motion1400.html
it is a great review
BUT...
now i am confused ...
I may not be getting the VeiwAnywhere screen after all, I may be getting the Transreflective Wide-Angle ... terminalogy is now confusing me.

When I ask the Ebayer if it was VA he said "yes, as described in auction" ,but the auction said TranReflective WideAngle ... which I did not know before but NOW know is different ...

I am not mad at Ebayer for conflicting response, especially after many many hours of research I didn't ever know there was a difference ... I thought they were the same too...

The funny thing is, after reading the review I think I would rather it be The TransReflective Wideangle anyway ...

But either will be better than what I have now ... which is nothing.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by TedRx

Update --
I found this review *finally*
http://pencomputing.com/frames/tpc_motion1400.html
it is a great review
BUT...
now i am confused ...
I may not be getting the VeiwAnywhere screen after all, I may be getting the Transreflective Wide-Angle ... terminalogy is now confusing me.

When I ask the Ebayer if it was VA he said "yes, as described in auction" ,but the auction said TranReflective WideAngle ... which I did not know before but NOW know is different ...

I am not mad at Ebayer for conflicting response, especially after many many hours of research I didn't ever know there was a difference ... I thought they were the same too...

The funny thing is, after reading the review I think I would rather it be The TransReflective Wideangle anyway ...

But either will be better than what I have now ... which is nothing.


Trans-reflective means indoor/outdoor screen:
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showpost.php?p=84199&postcount=3

Also, those tests I did with XP:TE where you still have bad lag (the pics are at the links I made in the post above) is with TabTipTamer V3 installed. That does nothing to tame the lag since Tablet Input Panel is not the source of the problem.

Think about it; Why doesn't the lag happen in some apps like Sketchbook Pro while happens in others like Painter and Photoshop? The answer is simple: Sketchbook Pro's pressure sensitivity works without installing the Wacom driver and Photoshop and Painter's pressure sensitivity only works with the Wacom driver installed. The only logical conclusion is that the Wacom driver is somehow being effected in XP:TE.

[TedRx]

UPDATE -

Just got!!!
Fast shipping ...
Powered up on first try and the battery is at 90% (computer estimate of 2+ hours... ALWAYS a good thing after buying on Ebay. And if 2+ hrs holds up, that will be PERFECT for me, especially since I usually don't have more than 2 hrs at a time to work on projects.

Came with extra stylus and very well packed.


Even though it has a slight 1/4" 'scuff' mark on screen, noticable when power off, but not when powered up ...

The Screen looks GREAT no matter what it is ...it is better than any laptop or desktop I have had. It is not a ultra-bright slick "glass" finish, more slightly textured surface (good for pen resistance for artist info) and extremely wide-view angle ... looks 180 degrees to me ... NO WASHOUT AT ALL ... LOW GLARE ALSO ...I foresee NO issue with spinning tablet around to get optimal drawing stroke angle. Tonite I will review it under flourescent light environment and report back. Personally I can't envision a BETTER screen for me.

Hey Shogmaster, if WideAngle is VA then why did the linked review discuss them as different and the VA was high priced?

--&gt;&gt; Initial reaction to my TabPc??

It was worth all the hours and hours of research and scaping and saving of b-day and Christmas money !!!

Also, it IS the M1400 model as indicated on back markings and obvious by the sceen type, but system info on software reads M1300 ... anyone know why? ... not big problem for me just curious.

More to follow ..

[TedRx]

UPDATE-

Does not come with wifi, or Motion Pak that would have included Dashboard and OneNote ...neither are deal breakers .... but I will have to get a Wifi card, if nothing else than for my Tivo-to-Go !!

Apparently there are 3 models of M1400 and this is the base model ... if anyone has links to any other issues that may arise from only having the base model please post !!!

Aslo, if anyone has link to the differnces for the 3 models also please post for others researching the M1400 ....

STILL LOVING IT ANYWAY ...

Will load Corel tonite and let ya'll have brief art review tomorrow.

[Shogmaster]

quote:Originally posted by TedRx


Hey Shogmaster, if WideAngle is VA then why did the linked review discuss them as different and the VA was high priced?


I never said wide angle = View Anywhere. I said trans-reflective = View Anywhere. Did you even look at my link?

[TedRx]

Sorry Shogmaster ...

I am near the end of seven - 10hr graveyard shifts in a row and when I read link it was AFTER being woke up by mailman's TabPc delivery. Which would be like reading in the middle of a normal person's sleeping at 2:30am for most people. Plus overwhelmed with whole "I got my tabPc" thing. So I couldn't fully grasp it ... and after fianlly getting up for my "day" , I still can't, but I will try again in the AM after I get off work ... maybe then I will finally understand the whole Wide-Angle / Transreflective / ViewAnywhere issue with the M1400 and then figure out which one I have.

Thanks for post and patience ...

[Billzilla]

Congrats, Ted!!! I definitely can't wait to hear more about your experience with the M1400. I honestly can't believe how similar an experience we're having as I just found out the difference between the screens yesterday. Only I haven't taken the plunge yet.

Also, read your earlier suggestion of the book to another poster, and now that you've recommended it again and explained a bit more about it, I'm going to head to the bookstore tomorrow to see about it.

Although I honestly plan to have a very nontraditional method of producing this book (I am doing this mostly just to see if my ideas will work for me, if it turns out I can sell the thing, so much the better), I always like to read the advice of people trying to accomplish my same goals (hence my closely following this thread).

Actually, in that spirit, may I recommend Dave Sim's "Cerebus Guide to Self-Publishing." The specific technical stuff he talks about isn't particularly useful anymore, as it's about ten years old and just about everything is done differently now, but his insights on marketing and distribution are great. And it's a good read, and not too long. And I think pretty cheap, as was produced as a comic book, just all text. I picked it up at midtown comics for under ten bucks.

Seems I've gotten a bit off topic there.

Back around: Last night I was struck with some kind of unexplainable lust for the TC1100. I don't know why, but some screenshots I was looking at of it (despite having looked at thousands of screenshots of it previously) suddenly made the thing look ultra-sexy. I know this impulse is bad, since I believe the TC1100 only has a 10" screen, but the design of the thing has been weighing heavily on my thoughts for some reason. I'd definitely like to see some kind of head to head comparison of it to the M1400 for art purposes, but I suppose that may be too much to ask.

Oh yeah, and speaking of head-to-head comparisons. I've been trying to read that cartoonmonkey shootout review for what seems like it must be a couple of weeks now and it's persisted in being absent. I sure would like to read it.

We really should have some kind of tabpc artists forum, yeah. Though there seem to be relatively few of us, we seem to be rather a chatty bunch.

[TedRx]

Dang it!!!

I just had a REALLY good long 24 hr review and hit some stupid button and exited out of post before posting ... argghh!

Ok Second try ...

Bilzilla ...
I am with you on the whole 'doing it for myself' thing, as are most Web Comic Publishers ...

we are in it for passion not sucess as measured by print sales or fame. That is what DROVE me to TabPc ...

a more efficient pursuit of my dream, which is my only hobby , making my own 'newspaper style format' comic strip...

you know 6 dailies make a week and then a Sunday, also following all the guidelines and limits put on a professional cartoonist in both format and time to produce a strip ... and doing it all by myself.

Hopefully in my HUGE recap and review I will remember to write a section just on that whole part of the journey, as it is my motivation for a TabPc.

But back on topic ....

A review of the first 24 hrs ...

LOTSA good stuff ... and a few snags---

Snags first --- some unexpected but none are deal breakers yet --

...Worst one -- My borrowed cd drive dint work out so I haven't got Art progam (Corel Draw Suite X3) loaded yet, so now I have to go get one. I tried Walmart this am on the way home and it had $80 DVD drives and BELEIVE IT OR NOT an external floppy drive, but no just plain external CD drive .. will try Best Buy tonite before work, hoping to keep under $30 bucks.

...Next, my M1400 is the BASE model (3 levels we made from what I can tell) which means --
--- NO SPEAKERS -- I bought a pair of working mp3 speakers that will do at a workstation, but I still am looking for compact MP3 speaker that will just stick out the TabPc at the jack port for on the go solution.
--- NO INTERNAL WIFI -- bought $35 wireless G (that is all I need at home) wifi card this am ... will report later if it works.
--- NO 'MOTION PAK' -- meaning no Dashboard, no Alias SketchBook trial, no OneNote 2002, etc ...
--- All of which add 'peices' to carry/add to TabPc making it less all-in-one AND cost more $$$ in 'upgrading' (trying to keep the 'solutions' UNDER $100 ... which is eating into my RAM upgrade money ... but I will upgrade RAM, it just may be a month or two ... but the RAM is 512mb which is equal to my laptop which porcessor wise did me just fine ... I am not a power user.

Now on to the GOOD STUFF ... and there IS alotta good stuff--

The screen held up very well under flourecents. The screen is plenty big so far (will report on size for art ptograms when I get that up and running), so Billzilla I wouldn't let the 10" screen be a deal breaker on the TC1100. My 12" TabPc "feels" like a traditional desktop configuration of 17" monitor since by default I am closer. As long as the resolution is comparable to what you are used to, the 10" will probably do as well as for you as a 15" desk top monitor configuration would .. disclaimer *** only MY opinion **. The actually screen dimensions to follow later (because 12.1" is a diagonal measurement , not a length wideth which always bugged my in stats) but it is slightly smaller than area of computer paper. For comics people , it is about a 1/4" shorter than, but 1/2" wider than a typical DC Comics monthly book (GreenLantern #25 to be exact ... great end to Sinestro Corps War ... best mainstream event of 2007 and best arc of any A-Level single-character monthly at DC or Marvel in years ... once again, just my opinion ... and yes I realize Green Lantern is considered by some as a 'team' book, but you know what I mean)

The [u]overall</u> size is very good, as it fits snuggly in my new thin $10 Walmart pleather portfolio that was designed to hold a legal note pad ... AND THIS IS EVEN AFTER I ADDED MY BRAND SPANKIN NEW HARDCOVER ONTO THE TAB-PC !!! Why am I screaming? Because I have met one of my PRIMARY goals of getting a TabPc in the first place ... a stealthy all-in-one digital art studio. Even after I slide the WiFi card inside one of the compartments, it all still fits !!! The only thing other that I need for the TabPc is the rather compact AC power cord for long use ... and that is easy enough to put the 2 peices in 2 separate jacket pockets for transportation from site to site. ... yeah, I have to carry earbuds to but those fit in the portfolio too.

Also in regards to size for you artist out there , writing/drawing on the *nice* screen is similar in height and wideth and texture to writing/drawing on the top sheet of a full packet of 8.5x11 300 series SMOOTH Bristol board paper.

Next GOODIE -- Battery life was well over 2 hrs on full charge with screen on full bright and mp3 playing the whole time while also surfing the tablet pc features. Not sure how video playing or the art progam will affect this but I actually turned it off after 2.25 hrs with 33% still showing. And if I can get 2hrs at one un-cord-attached session of video or art-ing around then I will be VERY PLEASED ... usually I am no longer than 2hrs without an outlet available but i do want that on the run, no cord to carry ability and capability.

Last GOODIE for now is the Handwritting to Text feature --- IT IS *SPOOKY* GOOD!!!. It is in a option at any data entry field via the OS (you get to view and edit BEFORE sending to data field too) ... and it is in Journal too . The letter recognition is freaky ... takes cursive, print or my usually - a hybrid of both with no rhyme or reason for switching in mid-phrase or mid-word. The learning curve is super short, especially compare to the PALM/POCKET PC conversion of a couple of years ago. Now don't fool yourself, longhand can be very tireing after a while for most of us vs typing, but for my limited text entry of e-mail, posting shorter-than-this posts, and limited writting, I feel it will do just fine ... i predict a total abandonment of a keyboard. Also, don't fool yourself, most folks will still need/want a keyboard and if you are one of those, look at a convertible TabPc ... but if you are like me, GO FOR THE SLATE !!

FYI --- JOURNAL is THE best way for those who love to write in long-hand but need to have text at some point in their project. This would be awesome for novelist who loves to, or just happens to, usually create in handwritting then have to type-enter entire document into computer for next stage ... it may not be perfect but trust me, it is easier to edit a converted document than to type the whole thing from copying longhand for start to finish.

That is all for now ... gotta go to bed BUT i can't leave just yet without saying a big huge thanks to the TabletPcBuzz readers and posters for all your support ... and the owner of the site for GRACIOUSLY suppling me with hardcover for my M1400 ... just got it today and it is awesome ... THANKS!!!!

For good or bad ... more to follow

[TedRx]

UPDATE---

STILL haven't been able to add my programs yet ... can't get external cd drive yet, tried 2 Walmarts, BestBuy and Staples and the only thing I can find is $80 DVD/CD combos which is alot more than I am willing to invest, even if it is going to take longer to figure out how to get programs loaded I do NOT want to cut anymore into my RAM upgrade money,

SO ... when I get a chance I will try to utilize home networking and load from my desktop as soon as possible.

Boy, work really can get in the way way of a hobby sometimes ...I am off tommorrow so wish my luck.

[u]Tip-o-the-day</u>: Plan on ANY new to you computer (be it new or used) to take a cuople of days to get set up and all your stuff loaded ... it really puts a damper on that whole "I got something new and want to use it NOW enthusiasm" .... but even after 10 years and MANY MANY computer set-ups for my self and family, it ALWAYS seems to go that way for me ... and in that respect, the Tablet Pc is no different.

Thanks ...

[WNewquay]

Hi TedRx,

I haven't read through the whole saga, but I think you said that you did not get Motion Dashboard.

You can download it from Motion on this page.

http://www.motioncomputing.com/support/driver_download_1400.asp

[TedRx]

Wow ... talk about synchronicity ...

Just before I read you post I found it too! Thanks for the supp

ort!

GOOD NEWS!!! --&gt;&gt; INTERNAL WIFI NOW WORKING !!

I never could get the PCi wifi card to work, so after updating to Win XP Tab Pc 2005 serv pak 2, I took a chance and went to Motion site and found wifi driver and installed it ... and it WORKS!!!

perhaps when the previuos owner did fresh reinstall the Motion drivers got left out ... will try other drivers next

..THIS JUST IN !!!!

SPEAKERS WORK NOW !!!

apparently it is ALL in the drivers !!!

now if I can just get progams loaded via network , then I'll be cooking with gas!!!

[TedRx]

Network is WORKING!!!

installing Corel Draw X3 as we speak !!

How sweet it is !!!

--&gt;&gt; updates to follow ... may be delyed due to "bowl-itis" a common once a year ailment that can only be treated with atleast 2 session of viewing college football bowl games ... GoDawgs

[TedRx]

FIRsT P0sT FR0M The M1400 !

Stll GETTING USED T0 HANDWRlTT1NG T0 TEXT !

C0REL Is ALS0 up and running t00

M0re t0 fo\low tomm0row

[TedRx]

After I sent my questions to the Ebayer,
it was confirmed that the system WAS restored with a M1300 restore disk, and they were glad to hear I had figured out some of the issues they were having, instead of just complaining about it ...

Following is a copy of my response which catalogs my response and solution steps .... I hope this will be of help to others now, and in the future ...


"Thanks for your email response, as I work in the fast paced and crazy world of a retail pharmacist I have found it far better to look for solutions to problems and share those solutions with other, in hope that it will make EVERYONE's life experience go much better. It is better to work on solutions than to complain, and if my solution can help others ... well the better for everyone. In other words, I try to make my REACTIVE solutions become others PROACTIVE solutions.

As of this e-mail, everything except the finger print scan reader is functioning!!! (and that is by far not important for me, but I suspect it goes back to the M1300 restore ... I will try to do the drivers thing and if i ever get it to work I will let you know just for your future refernce)

My solution was as follows:
First I got on the internent using an ethernet cable plug into to my wireless router to get access ..

Then I downloaded Windows Update ...

Then I did all 61 driver updates at Windows update for Service Pak 1, and then Downloaded Service Pak 2 (a 2-3 hour task) ... whether or not it has to be done before the driver re-loads, I don't know but that is what worked for me.

Then The MAIN thing I did to get "fully functional" was go to the Motion website under Current Users section on home page, then I went and downloaded the newest verisons of EVERY driver for M1400 XP. After this step, the Wifi and speakers and Dashboard all worked perfectly (well, as perfect as little teeny tiny speakers can ..good enough for me, but I hope nobody expects them to be like regular laptop speakers ... I know I didn't , but you know how some people can be ... FYI)

After that, I set up a home network between my desktop and tablet via wifi, enabled my desktop cd drive to be shared and then loaded Corel into my desktop and ran it from the tablet via network ... worked flawlessly ...people need to know how to share over network to do this, but it is easy once that is understood!

I will be leaving my feedback on ebay soon ... and I am sure you will like it ....

THANKS for helping my TabletPc dream come true ....
TedRx"

Hope that helps ...

Right now my daughter is drawing on Corel ... if I knew how to post Jpegs I'd post one for you ... maybe someone can help me with that ...

[TedRx]

Thought for the day -

Slate vs Tablet:

The Slate is definitely for me .... but a convertible would probably be for most other people.

Why?

Keystroke and mouse entry and navigation is more efficient UNLESS someone is willing to take the time to learn how to change how they think about and do those things ... and even I have yet to go 100%, because this post is still being done on my desktop.

For alot of people, the fact that a mouse can go from one side of a screen to the other with very little hand movement (my wrist never leaves the anchor spot) , as it is scaled, versus at tablet that requires the stylus tip, and hand, to travel (in my case) 12.1" from one corner to the other, is enough to not want to be 'stuck' without a traditional permanent keyboard solution.

Also, the TIPS is really *spooky* good but for long entries, I would recommend doing it in Journal, converting to text and then copy&paste-ing to it's destination. To decrease greatly, my routine daily text inputting, it also helps to put my favorite internet stops on my bookmark menu in firefox which makes them only a click away, instead of needing text to navigate.

For alot of people, I think they would still want the keyboard and 'mousing'-type option, even at the cost of added weight and thickness, and the addition of the moving parts of hinge and locks.

Personally ... I love the Slate and I am SOOO glad that is what i went for, so if you have an inkling for a slate, go for it!!!
But if you are Slate hesitant, go for the Convertible.

[TedRx]

Ok gang I have finally figured out the quick way to do text from Handwriting. It is in the top TIPS choice.

In this option you Can scribble along and the system groups close marks as "words" and looks for the best choice. Many times this actually corrects My bad spelling!

Also if you mess up it lets you do Mark-overs to clarity the letters you really wanted to use. Also, you can totally scribble out the word and it erases it and you get to try again. It Really is unbelievable how bad My handwriting is for this post yet the Tips is still doing a *spooky* good job.... maybe Microsoft really has reverse-engineered alien technology after all.

I just wish I could post how bad my writing is ! you world not believe it unless you've seen it for yourself! For me I think I would do better if I eventually Needed typed text to use Tips in Word processor program than to use Journal, only because this gives Real-time feedback and allows for editing before you send it from Tips to text program.

I dare say I can now post faster with writing than I was with typing.

Also, sketchbook pro is Awesome! It is by far better then Photoshop and photo paint in emulating a pencil. unfortunately, it is Not a Total option, as you would probably Need to do lettering and coloring (maybe) in Photo.

Sketch Book pro reminds Me of a conversation between Will Eisner and Frank Miller, where Eisner Commented that comic or graphic artist are Constantly trying to produce their work With things, such as software, that was Not specifically designed for being a tool for them to create with, After all How Many of us use a photo program, be it Photoshop or Photo Paint, to make our "Comics"; or illustrations?

Well for those of you searching for a program specifically designed for sketching type art, Look a farther than sketchbook Pro. Currently, I am testing the trial and I Love it!

The best Part of it is you see a Non pixilated stroke.

Also, the "pencil" allows you to buildup the line work... it is so good I'm afraid I might smudge the screen if my hand touches the line work.

Sketchbook allows you to forgive the texture difference between even the smoothest Bristol Board - pencil combo Vs the Tablet pc-stylus combo. from what I have Read you can get from Wacom a different Nib (Felt) that can help out even more.

oh well Bowl games on now, so that is all for now.... Go Dawgs!

[bmhome1]

Be sure to get the free version of ArtRage, particularly tablet friendly painter app. One of the best for stylus. Also get the Wacom tablet driver. It works fine, there's nothing wrong with it.

The felt nibs are wonderful feel, but costly with high shipping fee.

Pay close attention to your stylus response now as fresh install. Sooner than later added installs will chip away speed, not all at once but small degrees multiplied. Watch out with anti-virus and media players chosen. With 1Gz tablet for artwork managing resources is key.

Once your tablet is setup and running well, that's the time to make a drive image archive safety net. Acronis True Image has no equal for the task. With a slate, all the custom settings can be worth more not lost.

In your case, without recovery CD, XP Tablet would be very hard to find. It might be worth a call to Motion to see if they still offer 1400 recovery CD's. They won't for long if at all.

[TedRx]

Thanks for all the advice ...and as far as the recovery disk, I'm going to get my technical support staff ( wife ) to do that Tommorrow !

[TedRx]

Morning Update

I finally got my TivoTo Go working... it seems My system was missing a "Codec" for playing the video files. I think it may have to do with the fact that my TabPc didn't come with an optical drive so the system had No codecs loaded.

the Problem , albeit difficult to diagnose, had a rather simple solution - K-lite Codec Pak Full edition. So it any of you are having video play problems Give that a try. I forgot where I found it, but a Google ought to get you there sooner or later. Plus the price is right.... FREE

More to Follow....

[TedRx]

More Good News -

I just called Motion and they are sending me a restore Disk free of charge... so even though I now have my system like I want it, I will be able to actually restore My M 1400 to factory settings, instead of the M1300 "status" it is Now, if ever the need should arise.

So if you get a tablet used with no Restore Disk, don't give up easily... try Contacting the manufacturer.

[Billzilla]

Decided to hold my breath and take the plunge today, won a Motion M1400, 1GB RAM, 60GB HDD, Vista installed for $550 on eBay. Crossing my fingers that my experience is as pleasant as yours!

[TedRx]

Billzilla,
That is a GREAT price ... double the ram, 3 x the HD and Vista (which according to many on the Buzz is superior on the TabPc) for only $130 more than mine ...

I don't see how it can go wrong ...

Keep us updated!!

[Billzilla]

I know. I'm so excited I can barely think. All day I started conversations like "So I got this thing on ebay last night.."

I just don't see how this can possibly NOT revolutionize my life. :)

[TedRx]

Please do come back and keep us updated ....

This thread has just climbed over 3000 viewings as of this week so I feel there must be more than just a few people interested in this topic ....

be it buying a USED TabPc or using a TabPc for Art, so ...

Any and all info will be of great value Billzilla!

Thanks,

[Billzilla]

Ted, you're startin' an art tablet revolution. Doesn't hurt that anyone searching for "art tablet pc" in google gets to this thread pretty darn quick. That's how I got here.

Anyway, the time I've been waiting for my tablet (two days) actually seems longer than the time I spent researching and deciding and working up the nerve to buy one (at least six weeks). I knew there was no conceivable way it would come today, but still I hoped...

So, produced any art on that thing yet? Sure would like to see it. The forum FAQ (linked over to the left somewhere)should get you started, although you'll need your images hosted on a website or something- I use Flickr (the forum probably won't host your images, only link to them).

Or you could just email 'em to me, and I'll post 'em.

[TedRx]

Thanks,

I just emailed you

[TedRx]

After a week, I have TOTALLY abandoned the thought of' ever using a keyboard on my own personal computer ever again.

Everyone who sees the TIPS in action are in awe.

In the rare moments I am at my desktop or laptop, I feel like I am going back in time to the days of VCRs, Corded home phones, Big bulky cell phones, and only 3 channels on my TV.

After 30 years I have FINALLY found my device.

If any of' you are like me, you have been patiently waiting for personal computers to reach there ultimate potential. My first attempt at finding what would be right for me was the $100 Sinclair 1000 I ordered out of' the pages of Science Digest back in the early 80s. Then I got my first Desktop in 1996. Next I got an IBM Work Pad, which looks like a mini laptop but runs off windows CE ( FYI -still works!) . Then I got our first real Laptop and wifi which got me closer but Not quite there yet. Then I got a Dell Axim x5 which was Nice but not quite right either.

Then I began to lustfully peer into the Sunday Best Buy ads at the only mass marketed Tablet, a Gateway Convertible. But at $1,000 is was out of reach for a computer just for me. You people with family obligations understand. Then just a couple of months ago I stumbled on EBAY and saw Many used Tablets in my range $500. And so this thread began.

Mind you I, like many of you looking into the used Tablet PC market, could have spent $2000 or more on a New one I but it would have taken away from other things that the whole family could use, and as a Father & Husband I felt that was too much for an device dedicated just to me. So that's where the $500 limit came from.

And I can truthfully say that this $500 used Tublet has been Not only the best Gadget purchase I have ever made, but it has been the BEST technology buy ever, bar none.

So all of you who have $500 to $650 bucks to "gamble" with, I just have one thing to say...

Happy EBAY ing !


(I have become my own personal Rodney McKay)

more to come...

[TedRx]

A brief side Note for Tablet Pc use, Not directly for Art....
even though it touches on a topic that has inspired many great works of Art...

I have been scorching for a Bible for my Tablet and well after much comparison, I went with e-Sword.

First, its free...
Great price, but it allows for someone to try it out with no obligation ... though donations are appreciated.

e-Sword has most of the versions I want, plus Strong's , plus Maps , Plus dictionaries, plus Commentaries too.

The BEST thing is it has a Nice Parallel option which is what I have been wanting for a LONG time Now, be it print or digital.

The interface is old school Windows 95/98 windows and tabs but once you start using it , that is all but forgotten as its set up is fantastic. Heck if it got a Newer skin , I dare say it would take it to the top of anyone's choices.

And a Neat feature, if the Bible of your choice is Not FREE , odds are it is at least available for purchase at a competitive price to other Digital Bible products. Same for many study aids and commentaries.

And it's a small file too! Which is important to many Tablet users who have 20GR Hard drives.

Thanks for all your help fellow posters!

[Billzilla]

Hey all. Ted emailed me some images from his new tabpc, and I thought they'd be interesting to all of you. The first four were done by his 9-year old daughter. Here's what he had to say about it:

"To Me, they represent how anyone will gravitate to the tablet pc, if only exposed."

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2173611641_3bf0a7b6b2_m.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2173613139_5a2eb8273b_m.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/2173613105_b76a8779dd_m.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2012/2174399826_e08ec151fd_m.jpg

This last one was done by Ted himself and has me very excited to receive my m1400, hopefully tomorrow!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2294/2173613193_e8ca6719d7.jpg?v=0

there was a sixth image done by his wife, a portrait of him called "superted" but it's a Journal file, and I don't have anything to open it (at least until I get my tablet!), so we'll have to wait on that one.

Hope you all enjoy!

[Billzilla]

More from ted!

"Here it is inked via' sketchbook... Very easy to use layers, inks, and zoom in for detail"
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/2173765943_9d270a14c2_m.jpg

"And if you hide the "pencils" layer and save as Tiff file , you can easily then open in Photo I be it PhotoShop or Photo Paint, and than Photo only sees the ink's layer so you can then color and letter.

Very intuitive, Simply takes the Tablet to its desired ultimate."
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/2173765985_bf5dac9dc7_m.jpg


Outstanding work, Ted!

[Billzilla]

Posting this from my new tablet! Very excited. Been playing with it all day. l've had my own set of issues, different from Ted's.

See, this tablet came with Vista (on purpose, I understand it's the only way to fly for Adobe Users, and I use Illustrator quite a bit). Not that Vista is bad on this PC. Far from it. l was a bit nervous about the performance of the M1400 under Vista, given its low specs compared to todays models. But no. Most of my issues are due to the fact that I've never used Vista before today (nor a tablet, nor Alias Sketchbook).

l can't say it's performing amazingly- I've turned off all the bells and whistles in favor of performance- and l don't know how it would perform under its intended OS, XP tablet... but dear Diary, l am in LOVE!!!
l don't want to get too far into it, because I have a lot to say and writing a long review is a bit tedious on this thing (not that text input is bad, handwriting recognition is incredible- but l'll take a keyboard anyday for longhand).

Fortunately, I didn't buy it for writing, I bought it for drawing, so without further ado- my first three drawings.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2004/2176993931_5c1d5f5d04.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/2176994997_2ba7a8b937.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/2177127525_7153b0c50a.jpg?v=0
Also posted on The Agency blog.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2177918678_3342aedf87_m.jpg

[TedRx]

Update -

My Motion M 1400 Recovery Disk arrived today

So if you are in Need, I recommend contacting Motion by way of 1-800 Number listed on their Website ASAP

Didn't ya'll just love Billzilla's Art... Hopefully he will post more soon .


My HUGE Recap/ Review is about 1/3 written. Hopefully I have it done in a week and ready for posting sometime after that with help from the TabletPC Buzz Gang.

I am still loving it and have completely abandoned a keyboard for Life!

[TedRx]

Hey Everyone,

I just learned how to screen capture and it couldn't have come at a better time!

The Big Article Review is almost done in Rough Draft and I am now getting Images together to add to the write up.

Hopefully it will be done and post within a week... stay tuned!

Thanks!

[TedRx]

Update!

We Now have our own Artist section here at the BUZZ!

Let's make the Best of it ya'll...

[TedRx]

Final Update (for now)-

The big huge recap Review is DONE!!

Thanks to John here at the Buzz it is now posted as a brand new thread, that way not EVERYONE has to read thru 7 pages of postings on this thread just to get to it ....

But for those of you who have made it all this way here's the link to it ...

http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36627

Thanks to all of your for reading and posting ... and please post your own questions or Tablet Pc Discoveries so that others can see and learn from your experience too.

And if you have any questions for me, don't be a stranger .... post it or do a private email thru the profile section here at the Buzz.

Thanks,

[TedRx]

Update ....

we have now had OVER 4000 views on this Thread!!!

Please, If this thread , or the other one linked above about my "Tablet Pc Discoveries", has been of help...let us know!

And If you feel like you would like add something to them ... feel free!

It is Users post that make TabletPcBuzz as good of a resource as it is ...


ps. my SketchBook Pro just shipped today ... I can't wait

[TedRx]

Update -

After a month with sketch book pro and my Tablet Pc,
I could not be happier!

I am able to produce the best looking strips I could have even imagined
I was capable of making

once I get about 10 done, I'll post so it maybe a month or so...

Once again, the Tablet is doing all I ever hoped and dreamed it would!

[TedRx]

Shogmaster has a great video putting to rest the question of the Cintiq's seemily superior pressure sensitivity versus the Tablet Pc's seemingly inferior sensitivity.

click and be educated ....

http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/showthread.php?p=312319

Thanks Shogmaster !

[TedRx]

Wowweeee !!!!

This thread has now had OVER 7,000 views

I would like to thank all of ya'll who have help make this a complete success.

The one thing I would like to ask is that If this thread , or any other here at the Buzz, has been of help to you ... please post a response!!!

This forum will be only as good as those who PARTICIPATE

Don't be afraid to add to the threads .. this a community and everyone is welcome.


Thanks,

So , if this thread has helped, or if you have any comments you want to add to this (or any ) thread, even if the thread is years old ... please do so

[TedRx]

oh my goodness ... a thousand more views in just a month!

you guys are awesome.

But please, this thread is NOT closed .. any questions or comments, please feel free to add them to the thread.

Thanks,

[digishank]

Yes..the new Gateway C140s is something that is selling like hot hotdogs in the market.