Post by HenrikE - looking for a tablet

[John Hill]

HenrikE - sorry, but we had a little "outage" but I was able to save the text from your post. Feel free to post it again and then I'll delete this.

alltp



Posted - Aug 13 2007 : 12:30:03 PM
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Hi, just joined :)

It's great that you've started this forum, love it :)

I'm designing web pages, mostly using Photoshop, Firefox, and an FTP program. My back is going bad, and even though I don't have "mouse elbow" (whatever it's called) I'd prefer to pretend I'm not working :) by getting something than I can have in my lap in a comfy chair (inside or outside) and which doesn't use a mouse.

Now, working quickly in f.ex. Photoshop without a mouse will aggravate me. But I tried a Tablet LCD, and I loved the pen feel!

Looked at the OQO (oqo.com), which would be perfect if it was double the size and had a useable keyboard.

OK that's my life story... here what I've decided;

I need a Tablet PC with a great screen (14" 1280+, accurate colors, and minimum glare outside) and a precise pen. I love the idea with touch screens, but I'd go bonkers if I used my finger in Photoshop.

The rest of the specs are almost ridiculously humble. 1GHz+, 512MB RAM, and a 20-40GB harddisk would do it for me - and I prefer XP over Vista, knowing that not all apps are available in 64-bit.

I could go down in resolution if the screen is big enough (13"+). Sounds crazy but I'd rather scroll a little than having to zoom in and out in Photoshop coz the pixels are too tiny to see.

Now, I'm not going to draw artwork in Photoshop. Just edit graphics. I don't mind the cursor not being exactly where the pen tip is - but I'd like it not to skip pixels. (That's why I can consider lower resolution if it fits the pen resolution better.)

SO: 1GHz+ with a quality screen and pen!

Hehe, tall order? But the pen and screen is def where I want to put my money, maybe you guys know something that comes close for about $2000? I'll gladly accept outside glare if such screens have better color quality!
________________________________________I want freedom! Or do I? (c) Sartre

Posted - Aug 13 2007 : 1:28:24 PM
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Henrik: What you may want is a Wacom Cintiq tablet. The current product is 21" and correspondingly expensive, but they used to make an 18" version, and you should be able to find those available on the used market (don't know what the going prices would be, though).

Otherwise, your choices are very limited if you insist on a 14" screen. There is an older Gateway tablet that featured 14" screen and I can't remember if there was also a Toshiba. Today, the majority of screens are 12".

Regarding color capability, there was an interesting thread about this recently. I'll try to remember where I saw it and post the URL later today...



Posted - Aug 13 2007 : 1:56:55 PM
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Hi Steve :)

Would be cool if you could find that thread about color.

About Cintiq: even though Tablet PC weight is not important to me, that screen is a monster! Needs a table under it, is gigantanormous, and gets HOT. And I would still have to sit on a chair in front of a PC. Which is what I'm going away from.

I'd buy a normal laptop if I could use the touchpad, but I'd go bananas since I'm used to mice. And mice require a flat surface under it. And I loved just generally using the LCD Tablet, so I though a Tablet PC would be great! Something in my lap to surf, click and write code on.


But 12" is good, don't even mind going down to 1024x768 resolution. The main thing is that the pen is made for clickety goodness (no pressure levels necessary) and that the screen has good color quality. I don't mind slow update speeds or dither - as long as it's restful for the eyes, no flicker at all.

What I mean by color quality I guess is that many cheap LCDs have contrast and saturation up the wall, and sometimes you can't calibrate them to match a good CRT.



Posted - Aug 13 2007 : 2:24:25 PM
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Steve, was it this one? --> http://www.harknell.com/viewtopic.php?p=14197&sid=f7795277de46f580825c02cac641c01a

The reason I'm looking at a tablet PC at all is that I have a web dev/design company and find myself sitting long hours in front of a desk. Sure, for demanding stuff like 3D modeling/rendering (and games), that's the best solution.

But for web design, I'd like to go sit in an armchair or outside. Most of the time, I use a browser and click everywhere, occasionally entering some text. But I would want to edit pics in Photoshop with precision - "homing in" on a tool icon in the toolbar takes too long with stick/touchpad.

And in web design, it's super important that the colors you select are accurate when creating them - so I don't get a surprise when I look at the result on my stationary PC. :) This includes reducing .jpg picture quality for optimizing and being able to see when artifacts appear.

[HenrikE]

Hi, I'm back, thanks John :)

Well, I've been thinking. What I need is something in my lap that doesn't require a strenuous input device, yet can get things done in a browser and Photoshop. I don't mind if it's a slate - in fact, I think having a slate in my lap with a keyboard clipped on would be a quite good solution.

I've also been considering laptops with pens. But I'd need one which I can open up "almost flat" (and still fit in my lap) to be able to use the pen for longish periods.

The screen should be usable for longish periods as well and have color good enough to use for web design. If your eyes get tired soon, or a webpage background pattern causes the screen to flicker when scrolling, it's a bad screen.

I've looked around a bit, and most all of the TPCs have good enough viewing angle. I just need a little angle to vary my working position to avoid stiffness, but I don't think that's a problem at all.

It seems
- Samsung, Toshiba and Motion make the better screens?
- The HP Compaq TC1100, Motion M1400 and LE1600 have satisfied customers

I realize I'm not like many other buyers of these products - I'm not a doctor or field technician who uses it momentarily and then walks to another place.

I'd just like the freedom of something ergonomic for doing stuff that doesn't require a powerhorse. Ergonomic means low noise, a screen that doesn't tax the eyes, and pen/tablet action as relaxing as grabbing a newspaper, sit in a comfy chair, and solve a crossword puzzle.

[Steve S]

Henrik: Here is the thread that I was trying to think of:

http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35604

As you will see, it also leads you to another forum as well as this one...

[Steve S]

<<...And in web design, it's super important that the colors you select are accurate when creating them...>>

...It sounds like you should install a color management application like Monaco EZ Color. At the very least, calibrating your screen will go a long way to evening out this part of your workflow...

[HenrikE]

Yeah, naturally I'll calibrate it. Any screen can have its black point, white point, and tint adjusted. (Except some Dell laptops, because they've fixed contrast at max!) But some cheap screens have bad dynamic range, which usually kills any nuance between dark colors, like dark brown and dark gray.

I'm taking a look at Motion tablets like the LE1600. Would a HP Compaq TC1100 let me down, you think?

[HenrikE]

Hmm, reading my posts it's almost like I'm telling the manufacturers what to make :) I don't mean to be that specific or narrow down my choices that much...

Having meditated a little (and seeing posts on misc. problems with certain Tablet PCs AND laptops), I think I'm simply some sort of general recommendation from seasoned users like you - a TPC that has served you well in terms of stability, noise level, and battery reliability.

Performance and features really isn't super important - but I'm still into some clip-on or other keyboard solution where I can tilt the screen to almost lie horizontally and click with the pen and type the occasional login or forum post text - and still have it all in my lap and work ergonomically.

My dream I think would be simply a horizontal screen in my lap with a keyboard along the bottom, or even along the top. And TC1100, LE1600 seems close to that. Are there newer TPCs that do the same?

[Ride wind]

Frankly, I think Screen is very important to you. I would suggest 2 specific features: the viewing angle and pixel bits. the angle cannot be understated since you very much want it to feel like a drawing pad at quite a steep angle. Now most of the new notebooks look bright but has only 120#176; view. Looks bright and shiny right at the centre but colours changes dramatically after 45. off the centre axis. Unfortunately, the very latest crop of tablet PC's though slightly better but suffer the same fate so I think is best that you check it out physically.
Most LCD screens including those on the notebooks are 18 bits although it will support 24 bits colors under Window screen properties.As far as I know, only TC1100, LE 1600 and ACER 11x have the Hynis 32 bits LCD screens. Unfortunately they are no longer in production.Also their 10.4" screen would be too small for you. The IBM X60t ,I do not have the screen specifications but I tried it in the store. 12" screen and feels good.

[HenrikE]

Thanks, will check out the X60. (i've actually checked it out a little bit) I *will* have the tablet in my lap, so the viewing angle doesn't need to be extreme, if you know what I mean. Selecting colors isn't where I spend much of my time, so I could just look at it straight when the palette is out. I would however want a TPC that allows contrast adjustment so it isn't locked at max - I'll be fooled into thinking a color or pic is OK when in fact the maxcontrast screen shows it brighter and more colorful than it really is.

I do love the idea of clip-on keyboards though - seems to bring the screen closer for ergonomic pen use while having keys available without having to 'convert' it.

btw, the LE1600 is 12", isn't it? Or were there several versions?

The ASUS R1F videos on google video look great, the pen action looks better (less laggy and less 'oopses' in demos) than others. But apart from the post here I've seen people elsewhere get very upset about the battery issue.

[Ride wind]

I would like to elaborate a little on the screen angle. The current crop of notebook screens esp. those which are shiny surface has a serious problem for a tablet. Beyond the 45 degree off center, not only colour changes (actually the colour already will change slightly after just a little off centre) but the whole contrast can just flip. I mean it is like from a positive film to almost suddenly a negative film. Get the idea? On notebooks nobody complains because they are not used like drawing board at such angle but it is a BIG NO NO for a tablet.

As far as I know, only HP TC1x00 and ACER C1xx are 10.4" tablets and no one made this size anymore so the LE1600 got to be 12".

Actually, I find processor speed matters little when come to pen responsiveness. Window OS just need lots of memory for the pen to be responsive.

[HenrikE]

Thanks.

If someone has a new TPC that they feel is quiet and reliable, please drop some names here :)

[HenrikE]

Also, which technology does the LE1600 use for the pen? Wacom? It's darned hard to find out. I'd love to buy a new one (but I haven't come across an 'I love my <brand and model>' type article yet, like for the TC1100) and local range of TPC products is VERY narrow here and prices are 2x U.S. prices.

(Edit: found out 95% of the tablets use Wacom with pressure sensitivity, which is usually replaced with non-pressure-sensitive detection for touch screens. TC1000 doesn't have Wacom, while TC1100 does.)

[Steve S]

<<...which technology does the LE1600 use for the pen?...>>

Henrik: The LE1600 uses the Wacom digitizer, as do the vast majority of tablets. That's why it's not usually mentioned. Exceptions are the older Gateway tablets (used FinePoint with a "5 year" battery in the pen!) and, interestingly, the new LE1700WT, for WriteTouch, that uses a new N-trig dual mode (pen and touch) digitizer.

The N-trig digitizer will also be used on the new Dell tablet, due out in October...

[HenrikE]

Yeah, I found that out. I "read" here (http://66.249.91.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://blogs.businessmobile.fr/index.php/2007/05/22/tablet-pc/dell-va-proposer-son-tablet-pc-et-hp-ne-cherche-pas-le-grand-public/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtablet%2Bpc%2Bcorner%26num%3D20%26hl% 3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs %3DNS3%26pwst%3D1) that Dell has declared Tablet PC is not mainstream and will go for a pen laptop? (Brain needs a disconnect for reading that stuff :P so I could be mistaken.)

Reason I'm asking about reliability is because I either want something with a proven track record (which usually means old, sadly.) or if I buy new,I need to buy a brand that doesn't abandon my model as soon as a new model comes out. Right now I'm looking at Lenovo and Motion for that, should I expand the list?

I've reached a decision that I'd rather not go smaller than 12", and I'm not buying a touch screen model.

The form factor of the Thinkpad X60/61 actually seemed okay, unless using it in laptop mode makes it fall over if I actually, you know, have it in my lap. ;) Anyone have one of those and could comment?