First off, I bought the Toshiba Portege 3505 for

[Edwood]

First off, I bought the Toshiba Portege 3505 for use with high resolution digital image files in programs such as Photoshop 7 and Painter 7.
If you've never used those programs in that capacity(editing images for websites, don't count) than don't post saying "Dood you don't need that much RAM!"
I bought it at CompUSA.

There is a big contradiction as to the maximum possible RAM in the Toshiba Portege 3500/3505. I have seen listed just about everywhere that the maximum RAM capacity is 1024MB.
But guess what? If you bought a retail 3505 from a B&M store, the maximum possible RAM is 768MB, NOT 1024MB. ***?! You may say, I sure did.

See the evidence below

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/Website_Info_01a.jpg
Exhibit A: Clearly listed on their website is "512MB (x1)". DOes Toshiba Direct sell a different version than the retail?


http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/Toshiba_PDF.jpg
Exhibit B: According to their PDF, they don't. ***? How the hell do you upgrade to 1024MB? I've never heard of a 768MB SODIMM's. I hope that the 256MB of RAM built into the 3505 isn't soldered onto the mainboard. If it isn't, the only choice is to void the warranty by dissecting the 3505 and swapping out the 256MB SODIMM inside with a 512MB one. Either way, you're throwing away the 256MB (x2) to get 1024MB or RAM.
Either that or spend an assload of money on one 1024MB SODIMM and hope the 3505 supports 1280MB of RAM. I highly doubt it supports a 1024MB SODIMM. So, if you want to upgrade your RAM, buy the cheaper 256MB model, cuz Toshiba is charging $200 for a 256MB SODIMM!!


http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/RAM_Scandal_01a.jpg
Exhibit C: Memory specs in WinXP TE, stock, right out of the box. Note that its a bit short of RAM, because the Trident video chipset uses 16 MB of RAM for video.


http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/RAM_Scandal_02a.jpg
Exhibit D: Memory specs in WinXP TE, 256MB SODIMM removed.


http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/256MB_SODIMM_02.jpg
Exhibit E: The 256MB SODIMM removed from the Memory expansion bay. "Customer Sample" ***?!


Again, I realize that 512MB with a 768MB maximum may be plenty for most people, but graphics professionals will be severely limited by the 768MB maximum. I am an early adopter, and as with all that choose to support early technology, I get repeatedly screwed.
Oh, well. Nice try Toshiba. I will be calling Monday with this major complaint. I will get satisfaction or perhaps a class action lawsuit will arise.

Man, this Tablet PC was almost perfect. Almost. This sucks! I reaaaaally hope I'm wrong.
-Ed

[Edwood]

Pics of RAM removal.

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/Removed_Cover_01.jpg

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/Removed_Cover_02.jpg

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/DIMM_Size_Inch.jpg

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/DIMM_Size_Metric.jpg

http://pages.sprint.ca/ch33z1t/files/Toshiba3505_RAM_Scandal/Brian_TabletPC_Monkey_01a.jpg
Shogmaster happy to be carrying my new purchase. :D

-Ed

[jstigall]

I'm pretty sure the specs have always said upgradable to 768, as for the 2 memory modules instead of one, thats pretty crappy of them, you need to buy a 512 to upgrade it completely now.

[TMetzinger]

If you'd carefully compared the PART numbers between the PDF file and the TOSHIBA Direct website, you'd have caught on to the fact that there's a model with 512 and a slot free, and a model with 256 and a slot free, and a model with 512 and no slots free.

PP350U-002GF4 - 256(x1) (website - toshiba direct AND PDF)
PP350U-002LX4 - 512(x1) (website - toshiba direct only)
PP350U-002YXE - 256(x2) (PDF only)

What's the part number on YOUR box?
You can certainly try and take the unit back and order one from Toshiba, but I wouldn't bet on winning any lawsuits. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz

[jstigall]

Good point! If he bought it from some noname company they may have just put more memory in a 256meg unit and shipped it to him, what a shaddy buisness practice!

[bsobel]

The specs on the CDW site list the 512meg model as:

Memory
Standard RAM: 512MB
RAM Type: 133MHz SDRAM
Maximum RAM: 1GB

And the 256meg model as:

Standard RAM: 256MB
RAM Type: 133MHz SDRAM
Maximum RAM: 1GB

I had presumed that the 256 model did entail throwing out the 256meg simm and replacing it with two 512s. To upgrade the first model I (again presumed) the memory slow would be empty. I'll post what Toshiba actually did when I receive it.

I also won't be thrilled (but in my case could possibly live with it, I run 1gig or more on all of my machines, but for what I envision doing with the tablet 768 might be ok, we'll have to see). I certainly understand the posters concern and need to be able to max this out.

Bill

[bsobel]

Ok, checking the CDW 'mfg part no', turns out the 512meg model is 256x2, and the 256 model is 256x1. They don't seem to be carrying the 512x1 model.

Shucks.
Bill

[Edwood]

Read my entire post. I didn't buy from a no name. I bought it from CompUSA. There was no evidence of tampering with the Memory Expansion Slot.

I did notice that there is a different part number listed on Toshiba's website. But that still doesn't explain why it isn't listed in their PDF file.

Also, CLEARLY stated in the retail Portege Resource Guide on page 26 is "Maximum capacity 1024MB (1GB)". So, how the hell do I upgrade to 1GB?

Anyone with a Toshiba Portege 3500/3505, please do two things.
1. Check under Windows System Properties (under control panel) to see how much RAM is listed in your machine.
2. Open up your expansion slot cover, gently pull the anti static cover (don't try to pull it out) and see if there is a SODIMM there at all. You don't even have to remove it, unless you are curious like me.

This will tell you whether your Toshiba Portege 3500/3505 has 512MB built in or 256MB built in.

I personally think I got a bum deal, and Toshiba made a really big mistake in publishing their specs. I really hope I got a bum unit. On a special note. CompUSA did sell me the unit that was meant for the display unit (they never got the chance to put it on display.) So, maybe the display unit is different from the others? I doubt it, but one can hope.

I really love this Tablet PC, but I would love it more if I could have 1GB installed in it. It would be perfect that way.

-Ed

[Edwood]

quote:Originally posted by TMetzinger

If you'd carefully compared the PART numbers between the PDF file and the TOSHIBA Direct website, you'd have caught on to the fact that there's a model with 512 and a slot free, and a model with 256 and a slot free, and a model with 512 and no slots free.

PP350U-002GF4 - 256(x1) (website - toshiba direct AND PDF)
PP350U-002LX4 - 512(x1) (website - toshiba direct only)
PP350U-002YXE - 256(x2) (PDF only)

What's the part number on YOUR box?
You can certainly try and take the unit back and order one from Toshiba, but I wouldn't bet on winning any lawsuits. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz




My 3505's part number is PP350U-002YXE.

BTW, did you know that Toshiba puts a number "5" at the end of their model numbers to indicate the retail B&M versions of their laptops? So it seems to follow that trend. 3500 = Toshiba Direct, 3505 = B&M store.

Yeah, you are absolutely right, Buyer Beware (or more accurately, Early Adopter, beware), but WTF? We can't trust what a manufacturer publishes in their press releases and specs?

Toshiba will treat their early adopters with care, because we are the only ones that keep them in business. After all, how could a company succeed if no one bought their products when they first come out? Duh, always the Chicken before the egg paradox on that one.

-Ed

[TMetzinger]

The moral of the story here seems to be that if you want a Toshiba with 1GB of RAM, (as I do), the way to get it is to go to Toshiba, or be sure and tell your vendor that you want the model with 512MB AND an empty slot:

PP350U-002LX4

This may be how Toshiba intends to lure the real "high-enders" to buy directly from them.

[Edwood]

quote:Originally posted by TMetzinger

The moral of the story here seems to be that if you want a Toshiba with 1GB of RAM, (as I do), the way to get it is to go to Toshiba, or be sure and tell your vendor that you want the model with 512MB AND an empty slot:

PP350U-002LX4

This may be how Toshiba intends to lure the real "high-enders" to buy directly from them.


No, the moral to the story is that if Toshiba keep loyal customers, they should not print and advertise false claims about their products.

I WILL get 1GB of RAM in this Portege without paying additional money except for the cost of buying a single 512MB SODIMM, one way or the other. I do not simply spend a lot of money on a product, get less than what was advertised, and throw my arms up and say, "Oh, well. Please herd me to the slaughter. Baaa-aaa-aaa-aah".

-Ed

[KhakiBoy]

quote:On a special note. CompUSA did sell me the unit that was meant for the display unit (they never got the chance to put it on display.) So, maybe the display unit is different from the others? I doubt it, but one can hope.

I highly doubt it. I can't speak for CompUSA since I work at Best Buy, but the units we have on display are the same as what is sold. We simply grab one of the boxes, open it up, and put it on display.


quote:BTW, did you know that Toshiba puts a number "5" at the end of their model numbers to indicate the retail B&M versions of their laptops?

Actually, I think it's more the numbers after the model (ie 002LX4). Afterall, the 3505 can be purchased through Toshiba as well as at a B&M.

Update:On the other hand, you may be right. It does state on Toshiba's site that very fact (at least for satellites). Also, if you look at the detailed specs, the warrenty on the 3505 is only 1 year vs. 3 years for the 3500! Seems like Toshiba prefers you buy directly from them and gives you a longer warrenty and better memory configuration in return.

[bsobel]

> and the TOSHIBA Direct website, you'd have caught on to the fact that there's a model with 512 and a slot free, and a model with 256 and a slot free, and a model with 512 and no slots free.

I think you might have hit on a key there, the presumption has been posted that the 'initial' memory is soldered onboard and not in a sodimm slot.

In the pictures posted, is the other 256dimm under the green spacer that appears in the photo? (e.g. can someone confirm WHERE the initial 256meg is, and if it indeed is soldered or socketed)

Bill

[KhakiBoy]

quote:So, if you want to upgrade your RAM, buy the cheaper 256MB model, cuz Toshiba is charging $200 for a 256MB SODIMM!!

Excellent point! I did wonder if the 512MB model came with 1 512MB or 2 256MB chips. It didn't occur to me about the max amount it can take and how that would determine if it did have 1 512MB built-in. Is the 256MB model being offered at B&M stores? In our system I was only able to find the 3505 with 512MB.

Here's another interesting question. What configuration do you get if you order it direct from Toshiba THROUGH a B&M store? At Best Buy we have the "Computer Creation Station" where you can configure your system and have it built to your specification by the manufacturer, then shipped directly to you. Sometimes I've noticed models on there that can't be configured (other than adding a bag, extra battery, etc). So bascially what you get through the CTO is the same configuration off the shelf. The question is, if I was to order it through CTO would it have 1 512MB or 2 256MB by default? Hopefully it will allow you to configure it and then select 1 512MB. I might try ordering mine that way just to see what I get.

[bsobel]

> So, if you want to upgrade your RAM, buy the cheaper 256MB model, cuz Toshiba is charging $200 for a 256MB SODIMM!!

Actually (at least at CDW), they are charging the difference for the 256mb sodimm and the external DVD drive (the 256 model is listed without the drive)

Bill

[KhakiBoy]

Well I can't speak for CDW, but direct fro Toshiba includes a FREE DVD drive and buying one from Comp you get a form to send in for a FREE DVD drive. So that shouldn't be factored into the price. Therefor, it is a $200 upgrade for a 256MB SODIMM.

[Edwood]

There's a free mail in offer for that Targus Cardbus DVD rom drive. It's in the packaging along with the user manual.

Even if Toshiba offers a different Memory configuration (although they do not really state that there is a difference other than the warranty terms) this still does not address the simple fact that in the user manual and website states, "Upgradable to 1024MB."

Need I beat that horse carcass some more?

I'm calling Toshiba first thing Monday (unless they're closed for Veterans Day, I'm sure as hell working.) I'm also taking a trip to CompUSA to bitch about this.

Again, anyone with a 3500/3505, please take a looksy to see if there is a SODIMM inside the memory expansion bay. You need to do nothing more that unscrew ONE screw and pull the cover off. You don't need to touch anything else. Just see if there's anything there. This will not void your warranty. Just make sure to remove your battery first.

-Ed

[bsobel]

> Need I beat that horse carcass some more?

No, but I suspect you will.

We have yet to determine how the 'onboard' memory is configured, if it is indeed in a socket then the unit will be upgradeable to 1024meg. Worse case (if that is true) is that Toshiba screwed up and stated that 1 512 would come instead of 2 256's. Fair chance they might even be willing to 'fix' that be swaping the chips.

But I'm, for whatever it's worth (probably not much), getting annoyed by your attitude and treatment of the other forum members who are trying to help. So far today you've:

Blow this out of proportion into a 'scandal'.
Jumped over another user for repeating basically what you said.
Suggested a class action lawsuit against toshiba
Pointed out how you weren't going to stand for this like us other sheep (or was it lambs?).

And the best one, admitted that you planned on breaking your unit purposely in order to return it for a newer model (btw, thats fraud, not something most people brag about.

Bill

[bsobel]

From PcConnection:

"256MB PC133 SDRAM, expandable to 1GB There are two slots. One is occupied by a removable 256MB module and the other is available."

So, if true, the unit IS exandable to 1gb, you just need to replace both SODIMMs.

Bill

[Shogmaster]

I'm gonna have to slap the both of you for over-reacting. :-P

Ed, there is good possibility that the first DIMM is removeable. Which means like I mentioned before that the issue here is that Toshiba is to be blaimed for not making things clear on their site about the exact configuration of the retail model is, basically, over charging you for the additional 256MB DIMM that you didn't want in the first place in the retail model.

They should have made which model comes with which RAM config VERY CLEAR instead of this cloak and dagger crap on their site for those people for whom the 1GB of max RAM is a big attraction for their model and they definitely should make good on that in some way, but we haven't even checked physically if the first DIMM is soldered on or not. Let's check that FIRST.

Bill, you are over-reating to his over-reacting. Yeah, he did mis-read jstigall's post and balked at him for no reason, but you are pretty much doing what he's doing. No where does he say in this thread that he's going to commit fraud to get a new model, nor did he point to us as being sheep or lambs for taking it.

He's just pissed at the fact that they've mis-led them, which is quite an understandable thing when you spend your hard earned money on an expensive item like this.

[dlaws]

Interesting thread. I've spent some time since Thursday looking into the Toshiba model. It became obvious to me, after checking around for the best value, that the maximum memory was based on two slots and 256MB and 512MB modules.

I didn't see anything vague, ambiguous, confusing, or misleading. It just takes a bit of research.

I want the full 1GB so I'll make sure I get a model with a 512MB module to start with, then purchase a second 512MB module.

I do think, however, that if one is unhappy with his purchase, he should be able to return it. And I think this discussion has been useful in opening the eyes of others considering a Toshiba purchase.

Other than the memory, any comments about the unit?

David

[bsobel]

> Bill, you are over-reating to his over-reacting. Yeah, he did mis-read jstigall's post and balked at him for no reason, but you are pretty much doing what he's doing.

Fair enough ;), consider it dropped after this post.

> No where does he say in this thread that he's going to commit fraud to get a new model.

I didn't say it was this thread, it's in this one http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=343

Edwood's exact quote was "But I did buy 2yr TAP, so when the latest and greatest Tablet PC comes out from Toshiba next year, my 3505 will "mysteriously" stop working."

Bill

[Shogmaster]

Doh! Great googly moogly.......

Ed, my good friend.... I think your forum ettiquette got too warped by [H]ard OCP. :p

Different boards, different boundaries ya know. ;)

[Roy]

Spence,

I would suggest a Forum Lock feature to be implanted here...

I am not sure this forum software supports it, but if it does I am willing to be moderator if you do not have time...

What I mean is a feature by which the moderator of a forum can "lock" threads that are either talking about the same thing, or just aren't going anywhere, except for people fighting and stuff....

I think we snould all just wait until we get a confirmation that the "onboard" 256mb are removeable and can be changed to 512.... Lets stop the fighting guys... :)

[Edwood]

Yeah, sorry if I seemed a but harsh to any of you guys, but I do have nearly zero tolerance to ignorant flames. If you've ever posted at [H]ardocp, you'll know what I'm coming from.

As to the class action lawsuit, plenty of them happen for good reasons. If a company doesn't own up to a mistake, the public makes them. After all, if you were buying an SUV from say, Toyota, and it was stated in all the ads, the dealer, and on their website that it the model you want has 4 wheel drive and you buy it only to find out that it is 2 wheel drive, would you simply stand by and say, "Oh, well. I don't care that I spend extra money on it. Toyota can have the money. I'll just live with 2 wheel drive."?

OK, the equine carcass is a bloody pulp. I'm dropping the flaming issue.

Here's the latest update:

I went to CompUSA and talked to the manager and tech people there. They agree with me and will give Toshiba a call about the issue. There will be three possible outcomes.

1. If the Internal Built in RAM is upgradeable, Toshiba will send a 512MB SODIMM to CompUSA and have them install it. Or have CompUSA ship it to them to install.

2. If the Internal Built in RAM is soldered on and not upgradeable, Toshiba will send CompUSA the appropriate model with 512MB built in, so CompUSA will exchange my current 3505 with it.

3. If no such model with 512MB internal RAM model exists, and 768MB is the maximum RAM, then CompUSA will order the 3500 model with just the 256MB internal/ expansion slot empty, refund me the $200 difference, or just simply refund the difference. Will probably let me keep the 256MB SODIMM.

I was very clear and polite with CompUSA with the fact that the fault lies entirely on Toshiba. They will make the calls and negotiate with Toshiba for me.

I only want what is fair. The ads, website, and user manual states that the Toshiba Portege 3500/3505 will be upgradeable to 1024MB with 512MB SODIMM. Toshiba is legally obligated, (and to save face)to deliver on their claims.

-Ed

[Spencer]

quote:Originally posted by Roy

I would suggest a Forum Lock feature to be implanted here...

I think we snould all just wait until we get a confirmation that the "onboard" 256mb are removeable and can be changed to 512.... Lets stop the fighting guys... :)


I would agree.

Edwood, glad to have you here in the forums, but please try to stay a little bit more within the lines in the future. This isn't [H]ardocp. I would be glad for you to e-mail me to discuss this further if need be. (spg@tabletpcbuzz.com)

Sorry for my slight absence in the forums the past few days, but this weekend was homecoming weekend for the university my dad works at. We were quite busy. :-)