Hi I will be in university for engineering fi

[clarica]

Hi

I will be in university for engineering first year this september, and besides all the chaos of exams and high school grads...I also need to consider a mobile computing solution for my university life.

Fortunately the sweet look of HP 1100 attracted me, and I began to take notice in tablet pc, and finally I realized that it is the best notebook solution I could get.

However some questions arised when I investigate further... and I hope people could help me with this questions

1)For engineering students, what screen size would be the best? Is 12" large enough for taking notes and doing homeworks?

2)Is low powered(relatively) tablet such as 1.6Ghz cpu and 512memory enough for student use? Besides note taking I also like to do some photoshop and watch movies(also there might be engineering softwares). If i want it to last four years, is it necessary to buy a 1.8Ghz or 2.0Ghz one?

3)I heard that tablet pc is switching to third generation now, and it will be done in september with new lines of products, is that ture? Should I buy the pc now? or should I hold my appetites and wait till the end of August?

4)Is windows tablet OS stable? I dun want a win98 like system....

5)Could anyone suggest a convertible model for me plzzzzzz. I should have a CAD2500-3000 before tax budget, if i keep up the work in exams.

thanks

[BigSax]

Congratulations on your high school graduation, now the real fun begins. Now for my biased answers to your honest questions. I am an m200 owner, only tablet I have owned so all my opinions are from my experience that particular machine over the course of the past year (I purchased it July 2004).

1)For engineering students, what screen size would be the best? Is 12" large enough for taking notes and doing homeworks?

I find the 12" screen to be perfect using pretty much any notetaking software out there (Journal, OneNote, umm I can't remember any of the others cause I didn't feel like buying them). The 12 inch screen at the 1400x1250 resolution that the m200 has feels like a piece of paper. I have plenty of space to do my work and take notes on. Occasionally I will open a pdf of homework solutions or whatever along with Journal, but I have found it easier to have that on another monitor, there really isnt enough room to view 2 things at once on the 12 inch screen.

2)Is low powered(relatively) tablet such as 1.6Ghz cpu and 512memory enough for student use? Besides note taking I also like to do some photoshop and watch movies(also there might be engineering softwares). If i want it to last four years, is it necessary to buy a 1.8Ghz or 2.0Ghz one?

Wow an engineering program actually possible to finish in 4 years and keep your sanity? I want one of those!! I have a 1.6ghz with 512 of memory and am happy with it, I might be even happier with more memory, but I haven't found 512 to be a problem so I haven't gained the motivation to upgrade. Matlab, Spice, Mathcad, Quartus, Minitab and all that wonderful engineering software runs wonderfully on my setup. But to last you the next 4 years you will definetly want a more powerful system, most likely one of the next generation coming soon, but more on that in Q3 response.

3)I heard that tablet pc is switching to third generation now, and it will be done in september with new lines of products, is that ture? Should I buy the pc now? or should I hold my appetites and wait till the end of August?

As stated before, you will want something more powerful than the 1.6ghz, 512 RAM to last you through graduation. The bits of info about the next generation tablets looks promising, but it really comes down to this: Do you want to wait for them? Personally I opted to buy my tablet in July last year so I would have almost a full month to get all my programs setup, get used to the feel of the pen on the screen, choose and familiarize myself with the software I would use for note taking, implement an easy backup strategy, etc. But then I didn't have the promise of bigger and better things in the next 3 months. If you want to bite the bullet and get a machine now and risk buyers remorse when someone comes out with the ideal tablet for you 2 weeks after your purchase, thats up to you. If it were me, I would wait. If your experience is similiar to mine, this machine could be one of your biggest investments to date and it would suck to feel you cheated yourself out of something better cause you couldn't wait a month.

4)Is windows tablet OS stable? I dun want a win98 like system....

The Tablet OS is just as stable as WindowsXP, because it is WindowsXP. It is the same OS with the added Tablet functionality, which in my experience doesn't cause any degregation of stability. I have found some virus software (ie what I use, FSecure) can cause random crashes in SP2 without proper patching of the software. This is another pro to buying the machine early, so you can work out bugs of this type and not have it crash on you mid-way through a lecture.

5)Could anyone suggest a convertible model for me plzzzzzz. I should have a CAD2500-3000 before tax budget, if i keep up the work in exams.

Umm.. the Toshiba M200 :P I love the machine, but the new ThinkPad X41 coming in the next few weeks looks promising (except for the 4200RPM HD that it will have standard, the 5400 in my M200 is the slowest I would consider going). But when others give their opinions on machines, remember that weight is a major consideration regardless of how strong you think you are. Even my m200 can get to be rather heavy on the rare occasion that I am actually standing up and inking on it. Not sure what 2500-3000 Canadian will get you, isnt that like $14 US? :P Ok ignore that last statement, its sort of an ongoing joke I have with some of my Canadian friends.

Good luck in your search, check out all the forums here and see what people have to say about their machines so you can make an informed decision.

[Sagan]

Clarica,

I always ask the person to consider the size of their writing. If you are a large writer, then a bigger screen would do you well. If you still want the high resolution and the big screen, your only choice is the Toshiba Tecra M4. If the resolution isn't an issue, then many of the convertables with a 14" screen will do you fine. And, as BigSax says, the M200 is still an excellent machine that has most of what you want. Personally, I am pleased with the 12" screen of my M1400 (especially when it comes to the viewing angle and brightness) and highly recommend it for its portability.

As for 'clock speeds' of the CPU, don't be fooled by these numbers. Different chip architectures use different clock speeds, which negates a direct comparison of the two on these numbers alone. For example, I have the 1.1GHz ultralow voltage CPU in my Motion, but it runs equivalent (according to those who know) to a 2.4GHZ P4 desktop. I watch movies on mine and there is absolutely no skipping or problems at all. It's a very enjoyable method of movie going that I use whenever I am on the road. I'll be using Maple 10 on my tablet this fall to teach some classes, and I have no expectations of it being too sluggish to get the job done. My old P3 HP laptop ran Mathematica and MathCAD just fine, and this tablet blows that old HP away.

In any case, the slowest part of any computer these days is the hard drive. So, I recommend loading up on RAM and maybe getting the fastest HD available for you machine (upgrade the RAM yourself, to save $$$).

Finally, don't worry about the 'third generation' tablets, as most of them have come out recently. Toshiba, HP, and Motion have just released their new units. The IBM tablet is on its way (though it is first generation) in the next month. You have plenty to choose from now that will fit the bill over the next couple years for you (maybe all 4 years, if you treat it nicely). But, no matter what, you'll have drooling envy fits over some of the new models that do come out in the future. So, just do the drooling and then go back to work with the machine you have ("dance with the date that brought ya", is my motto). Good luck deciding.

[Awperator]

hey Clarica,

A little background: I just graduated (4 years, B.S. Chemical Engineering) and for the last year of school I used a Motion M1400VA. That machine saved my life. It's only 1.1Ghz, but it's not bad at all. All the programs that I need are on it, and they work perfectly with little notice in speed (I also have a desktop AMD fx-53 system that I built myself, but I only use that for games pretty much and also backups from the tablet). My university has wireless in some buildings, so it is really really nice to be able to look stuff up during lectures and incorporate that into my notes. Another engineer in my class had a m200, and he was pretty happy with it. If you are going just on speed alone to sway your decision, I would recommend the Motion, because the form factor, the lightweight, and also the coolness factor outweighs it's "slow" processor. It's not even slow at all actually, again, all my programs that I need run fine on it.


WinXP and winxp tablet edition is stable as long as you keep it updated. Also, have a good antivirus solution. Once a classmate plugged in a USB drive in with a virus on it. Good thing Kaspersky (the antivirus software that I use... highly recommend it) found it.


I see you are set on a convertible, and if so, then go for it. I woudnt toss out the slates on speed alone... so yeah.

Good luck.

- Awperator

[clarica]

Thank you guys for your thorough replies and they helped alot!!

I really like the weight of slates, but unfortunately on my course outline for the next four years, there are some major computer programing, and I think I would like a keyboard for that. I notice that motion computing's slates have docking solution and wireless keyboards, but those ones for sure are going to add up the weights and prices. Also it's a little bit harder to get a motion slate(since almost every slate user recommand that) in Canada than in the states. So...I guess my only choice is convertible.

Now I know that a big screen isn't that necessary(thank you guys again), I can basicly forget about all the 14" screens...(too heavy) and my choices are narrowed to Fujitsu T4010, HP TC4200 and Toshiba M200. I will take a thorough look at these and perhaps wait a little bit for their upgrades, and make my decision in august.

thank you again

[DanDaMan]

The HP tc1100 might be a good choice as it is a nice mix between slate and convertable. The keyboard can be detatched or it can fold around underneath the screen. The 1.2 Ghz 2mb cache centrino is probably plenty of zip for anything you need to do. It's also probably coming down in price quite a bit now that the newer HP model is out.

One thing that I was really worried about when I was buying a tablet was the compromise of having no optical drive. I've come to see no optical drive as a benefit now though. Optical drives suck up battery power, add weight, and add extra moving parts that generate heat and could break. With high speed internet, flash memory and bluetooth you really don't need one either. If you have a cd you must get to, you can pop it into a networked desktop or get an external drive. dvd's can be copied onto your hard drive with the right software.

[Awperator]

You can also get the hard top keyboard for the motion. When not in use, you can use it as a cover for the tablet by clipping it on top of the tablet, or it clips to the underside. Very stylish. Also, in regards to no optical drive, you can get programs that emulate a virtual drive (Daemon tools, Alcohol 120%, etc)

- Awperator

[Bethany]

Well, I might be biased because I have a tc4200.:) The thing about the M200 is that it's definitely in the last generation of tablets,which would make me a little reluctant to buy one now personally unless I did it used or otherwise got a good deal.

IIRC Toshiba is rumored to be replacing the M200 Real Soon Now, but I don't recall if Real Soon Now is supposed to be as soon as you're going to want it.

I think SXGA+ would be a bit much for 12.1" myself, but I'm told people who program often like the extra screen real estate.

Bethany

[kilar]

I use the Acer C302, because I like having the extra real estate (14"). Even though I have small handwriting, I use the extra space so that I can have a professor's PDF file open, along with the PDF I am writing on, a MathCAD sheet, and maybe a Virtual TI calculator all on the screen at the same time. It was a much tighter fit for me on a 12" screen--I can not imagine living on anything smaller than 14".

Resolution is great for graphics designers and artists, but not for engineers (unless you want high-res doodling).

XP Tablet is just as stable as XP (whatever that means to you). 1.5Ghz CPUs are fine for engineering applications, but be sure to max out your RAM.

No matter what time you buy the tablet, you will always wonder if you should have waited one more day for the later model. Just get one and make the best of it.

[kpickle]

I to am going into engineering in the fall, i have a m4 and i love it dont get me wrong. But i was really starting to think that 14" is alot. Not in weight or travelling but physically sitting in a desk. If you ahve to have a book out as well i dont many desks that can take that. However ive never been to college or been in a classroom at lsu to really know how this is gonna work. Its just one of those things ive been thinking about. Does anyone with a 14" screen have problems with this if they are a college student.

[DanDaMan]

14 inch might be a bit big for those seats with the tiny tables attached to the armrest. It would probably stick out over the edge which is fine unless you need to put your glasses or your calculator there as well.

[BigSax]

Calculator = VirtualTI solves that part of the problem. I have found in the few classes I've had to take with those rediculous desks is that it is actually easier to write on my tpc if i have it angled such that the back is resting on the edge of the desk and the bottom of the unit against my stomach. Leaves plenty of room for a book (if I ever carried any) or whatever else to be placed on the tiny little desk. Not sure how well this would work with a 14" screen, but its only 2 more inches, it should be ok.

[kilar]

I put my textbooks and calculator on the computer. I only carry the tablet PC to class. Since I am putting more stuff on the computer screen, I need the extra real estate. IMO, more screen is better.

[Sagan]

In my entire career as a college student (BS, MS, and PhD), I never once took my text to class. Not once. Now that I teach, I tell my students on day one that I will never use the text in class. Of course, many people like to have the text for reading between classes and such, so I can understand carrying it around.

I recommend, to lighten your load, at least scanning in the pages of the exercises/problems for each chapter and, while hanging out between classes, working on the problems that relate to the most recent lecture, for which the notes are on your tablet. If you can't solve a problem based upon the lecture notes, then you know what to focus your reading on when next in your room. And if you understand the problem from the lecture notes, you don't need to do a hard read on that material.

[clarica]

Thank you guys for your inputs


quote:DanDaMan

The HP tc1100 might be a good choice as it is a nice mix between slate and convertable. The keyboard can be detatched or it can fold around ....

Yeah I thought about that too, but a 10" screen is abit small for me, and right now the new HP price is just the same as tc1100


quote:You can also get the hard top keyboard for the motion. When not in use, you can use it as a cover for the tablet by clipping it on top of the tablet, or it clips to the underside. Very stylish. Also, in regards to no optical drive, you can get programs that emulate a virtual drive (Daemon tools, Alcohol 120%, etc)

- Awperator

I have checked motion, and i like it. However the price is a little bit over budget, I had contacted motion about buying one in Canada and they recommand a M1400 or Le1600 w/ celeron cpu to me, for the budget I got. So on motion I had to take more time to see if spending 1000 more on a system is worthy, since for 3K CAD I can get a system that has the same config as motion.


quote:Well, I might be biased because I have a tc4200.:) The thing about the M200 is that it's definitely in the last generation of tablets,which would make me a little reluctant to buy one now personally unless I did it used or otherwise got a good deal.

IIRC Toshiba is rumored to be replacing the M200 Real Soon Now, but I don't recall if Real Soon Now is supposed to be as soon as you're going to want it.

I think SXGA+ would be a bit much for 12.1" myself, but I'm told people who program often like the extra screen real estate.

Bethany

M200 got a very attractive price, but yes it is old.... i heard that new toshiba will be out in sept but that's a bit too late for me.


quote:kilar
I use the Acer C302, because I like having the extra real estate (14"). Even though I have small handwriting, I use the extra space so that I can have a professor's PDF file open, along with the PDF I am writing on, a MathCAD sheet, and maybe a Virtual TI calculator all on the screen at the same time. It was a much tighter fit for me on a 12" screen--I can not imagine living on anything smaller than 14".

For the screen size, I now see both 14" and 12" have their benefits, and in order to decide which one I would go for, I think I might have to see it for real... after my exam I will check the local stores...


quote:
kpickle
I to am going into engineering in the fall, i have a m4 and i love it dont get me wrong. But i was really starting to think that 14" is alot. Not in weight or travelling but physically sitting in ...quote]

I think they got big lecture with big tables, and small class room with the seats DanDaMan had described....so I guess nothing is perfect:D

[quote]Sagan
I recommend, to lighten your load, at least scanning in the pages of the exercises/problems for each chapter and, while hanging out between classes, working on the problems that relate to the most recent lecture, for which the notes are on your tablet. If you can't solve a problem based upon the lecture notes, then you know what to focus your reading on when next in your room. And if you understand the problem from the lecture notes, you don't need to do a hard read on that material.

Thank you so much for this tip!!! LoL it's not only a tip regrading tabletPC but it's also a great tip regrading study. Thank you!!!


- thank you guys again:-)