is that true? so you cant use it for skatching

[argol]

is that true?
so you cant use it for skatching and drawing with photoshop or alias skatchbook?
(well you can but what will be the point if the lines dont look real)

[Kupe]

I suppose it depends on what you want to draw. I have tried both software packages you mention and finde the Compaq to be just fine.

I've also tried the Motion, Toshiba, and Acer Tablets and find the pressure sensitivity to be interesting, but hardly a compelling factor in choosing.

Make sure you try before you buy to ensure you get the features you need too.

Kupe

[motion1]

yep! the TC 1000 is not pressure sensitive. My desktop is not pressure sensitive -neither is my "Regular" laptop ---So what! I'm not an artist And I know that with pressure sensitivity you can make broader lines by increasing pressure,hell I Can't draw a line with a ruler But for those who need this go for it.But I do use several art/photo And small CAD programs And they Work fine There in no one Tablet pc for all pick & choose the features you need/want

[welwyngc]

quote:Originally posted by argol

is that true? so you cant use it for sketching and drawing with photoshop or alias sketchbook?
(well you can but what will be the point if the lines dont look real)


It will be interesting to get some feedback from users who are artists.

As with the previous two comments, I am indifferent.

In fact, when I am using Window Journal, with the Toshiba (after using the compaq), it is quite odd to see the impact on my scribbled notes from the pressure sensitivity of the pen.

[acronym]

yes - its true !
the hp/compaq is not pressure sensitive. is this a problem? maybe for some people, but don't forget most drawing applications are time sensitive - the longer you hold the mouse in one area, the darker the line gets. so if you want thick lines, just draw slower.

[Spencer]

Yes, the TC1000 is not pressure sensitive. Now like the others here, pressure sensitivity isn't something I need. However, it is a drawback of the machine for artists. If you are an artist planning to do alot of drawing/sketching on your Tablet PC, the TC1000 probably isn't right for you.

[argol]

well im planing on learning architecture next year and instead of buying a normal laptop i decided it would be better to buy a tablet.
but all ive learned in the past few days i spent on this issue, is that there is no tablet good for my use. -

toshiba has pressure sense and is fast - so it makes a great sketching tool, however it doesnt have any 3d power
in it, so i can forget running any 3d studio max or autocad stuff on it.

compaq has a "fast" 3d card, but doesnt have pressure sense which makes it a poor sketching device

and all the rest are like the toshiba, only slower...

too bad none of the companies that make tablets, tried to make theirs a balanced one.[cry]

[Kupe]

You might re-check the Toshiba - I think it is still Direct3D capable out of the box - the Trident CyberALLADIN is a 3D chipset.

quote:Originally posted by argol

too bad none of the companies that make tablets, tried to make theirs a balanced one.[cry]
Actually, they're all balanced. There was a considerable balance challenge facing each manufacturer to combine aspects of speed, battery life, display size, IO ports, weight, et al into a successful machine. They've each dealt with these tradeoffs differently. I think what you are describing is the mega-tablet: No trade offs involved at all. I predict you will probably see something like it by summer time.

After all, in the world of electronics, anything worth doing is worth overdoing! [thumbsup]

Kupe

[Gromit]

I'm not an artist, but I think pressure sensitivity adds a lot for regular ink input. When I first played with a Tablet PC at a Gateway store, I was kind of disappointed until I realized that pressure sensitivity was turned off. After enabling it, the ink became much more realistic looking.

Purely subjective though. I would try a hands-on session with a Compaq and another tablet that's pressure sensitive so you can decide for yourself.

[frede]

When my TC-1000 is “docked” at work it is connected to a Wacom Graphire2 tablet mainly for the wireless mouse option. I also use the Wacom tablet’s pen holder for the TC-1000’s pen (very nice, when is somebody going to start selling a pen holder?) I found that the TC-1000’s pen is much more responsive then the Wacom’s pen. On those occasions where I feel I must have pressure sensitivity, it’s there. Before I got my TC-1000 the lack of pressure sensitivity worried me, and I still believe it would make the TC-1000 better, but no way I’m sending mine back.

[oldtech]

This whole pen pressure thing doesn't make much sense to me. If you are an artist and use pen pressure than it would make a difference, but I've been writing with a ball point pen my whole life without pen pressure. I've seen no difference with the Tcl000.

[welwyngc]

quote:Originally posted by oldtech

This whole pen pressure thing doesn't make much sense to me. If you are an artist and use pen pressure than it would make a difference, but I've been writing with a ball point pen my whole life without pen pressure. I've seen no difference with the Tcl000.


Maybe I am missing Something here but isn't a ball point pen effectively pressure sensitive?

As you exert pressure the ink flow increases, and as you reduce the pressure the ink is lighter.

[oldtech]

A ball point pen is no more pressure sensitive than the spring loaded compaq stylus. At least the last time I used a ball point pen it didn't matter how hard I pressed it wrote the same.

[Gromit]

I guess I prefer writing with a felt tip or "ball" type of pen where the amount of pressure does make a difference.

[wheat]

I have both the TC1000 and the Toshiba 3505. I like the size and feel of the TC1000 best, so far. It takes far less effort to tap the screen. I hate the smaller Toshiba diameter and its flat side where the right mouse button resides. I do like its eraser end, though. Writing with the Toshiba requires heavier pressure while writing due to its light weight plus the pressure sensitive screen. I tend to hold a pen an inch and a half from the tip. That automatically puts my forefinger dead on the button of each pen. I can assure you that my fingers feel more stress using the pressure sensitive Toshiba. The tip drags on it instead of sliding easily on the glass of the TC1000.

Wish my hard drive on the TC1000 had not died. I want it running again as soon as I can get the replacement from HP.

[Appraiser]

Wheat, your post hit home with me.
When I was trying to decide which tablet to buy, the feel of the pen seemed like it would be important. One reason I decided against the Toshiba (besides the lousy service & continual hardware problems with my daughters laptop) was that I felt the pen being flat on one side would feel very awkward. All the reviews I read commented on the nice feel of the TC1000 pen and the smooth interface with the screen, and I've found I haven't been disappointed.

[gsnethen]

Ball point pens *are* pressure sensitive.

So are felt tip pens, pencils, and most other writing instruments.

Just look at something you write with a ball point, felt tip, pencil, etc. You will see thick portions of lines and thin portions of lines. These variations are caused by changes in the pressure you apply while writing. Most of us rely on this effect whether we realize it or not.

For example, when I write rapidly, I don't lift my pen completely off the paper when I dot my "i"s. On an Acer, my handwriting looks natural with pressure sensitivity turned on, but has no distinction between intentional lines and "lazy lines" with pressure sensitivity turned off.

That is why every tablet PC (except one) supports pressure sensitivity.

I am struggling with the decision between an Acer and a TC1000 and this is the *primary* issue holding me back from the TC1000. I want my digital pen to behave like a real pen -- not a mouse. I'm seriously concerned the TC1000 just won't cut it.

It's heartening to know that so few of the TC1000 users out there seem to notice what they're missing. But I wonder how many of you have tried devices with pressure sensitivity enabled and still feel it doesn't matter.

---Gary

[frede]

quote:Originally posted by gsnethen

But I wonder how many of you have tried devices with pressure sensitivity enabled and still feel it doesn't matter.
I use several different Wacom tablets in my work, I really love them. In fact when my TC-1000 is docked it is connected to a Wacom tablet. I have found the overall performance of the TC-1000 pen interface to be much more responsive then the USB Wacom tablets. It shocked me, but when it comes to drawing give me the Wacom, when it comes to writing give me my TC-1000.

[motion1]

I used a wacom tablet for some time with photoshop, canvas 7 and other photo stuff.. I now have a TC1000 and dont miss the wacom sennsitivity at all..but then I am not an artist... if you are...and you burn to have this ...get another tablet... by the way..I dont see the ball point as sensitive...no matter how hard I press the line is either, fine, medium or bold...depending on the point and not the pressure..with felt pen..if you push hard enough you will squish the point...so much for pressure sensitivity...

[paradoxicalcat]

quote:Originally posted by gsnethen


Ball point pens *are* pressure sensitive.

So are felt tip pens, pencils, and most other writing instruments.

Just look at something you write with a ball point, felt tip, pencil, etc. You will see thick portions of lines and thin portions of lines. These variations are caused by changes in the pressure you apply while writing. Most of us rely on this effect whether we realize it or not.


That's funny. I've been taking notes on the TC1000 for 3 months for univeristy lectures, and comparing them to my previous paperpad notes, I can see NO DIFFERENCE. None. I would therefore suggest that your statement that we "rely" on this effect is simply NOT TRUE.


quote:
For example, when I write rapidly, I don't lift my pen completely off the paper when I dot my "i"s. On an Acer, my handwriting looks natural with pressure sensitivity turned on, but has no distinction between intentional lines and "lazy lines" with pressure sensitivity turned off.

I don't do this, so that is why I don't notice the effect. Everybody who has used my tablet pc also does not do this.
Are you a doctor or a lawyer? ;)


quote:
That is why every tablet PC (except one) supports pressure sensitivity.

Why is it that Journal (the de facto note taking tool) defaults to pressure sensitivity turned OFF, then???



quote:
I am struggling with the decision between an Acer and a TC1000 and this is the *primary* issue holding me back from the TC1000. I want my digital pen to behave like a real pen -- not a mouse. I'm seriously concerned the TC1000 just won't cut it.

You've already made your choice. That's good, go with it! :-)


quote:
It's heartening to know that so few of the TC1000 users out there seem to notice what they're missing. But I wonder how many of you have tried devices with pressure sensitivity enabled and still feel it doesn't matter.


It's disheartening to know that you honestly believe that so many of us users are being duped. In fact, Gary, we have seen side by side comparisons of handwriting with and without pressure sens. and could detect no difference. There are journal articles posted on this board, I couldn't tell the difference, no matter how hard I look.
The TC1000 feels so natural, it's pen is so natural, it flows when I write. I take notes BETTER than paper and my writing looks BETTER than with a pen and paper. I truly can say this.
And there are many others who agree with me also. MANY MANY others.
So, I wouldn't worry about us being fooled. We're not missing anything.

We're gaining a tempered glass screen that all the other models don't have.
We can upgrade to 768MB RAM, the Acer maxes out at 256MB
My battery truly last 4+ hours.
Like has been said so often, it's not a matter of one is better or worse, the tablets are suited for different types of people.
You must pick and choose the features you feel best suit your needs and go with it. For us TC1000'ers, we don't feel that the pressure sensitivity is worth the price of not having this other wonderful features.

[gsnethen]

My intention was not to offend anyone. I apologize if that was the result. The responses have been quite helpful.

I'm not sold on the Acer by any means. In fact, I prefer the TC1000 in almost every other respect, including the harder screen, more responsive digitizer, better graphics, expandability, separable slate, better aesthetics, etc... I'm just frustrated that they did such a great job on so much and left out an important feature of the tablet's primarily role in life -- to create digital ink.

I'm not an artist (nor a doctor or lawyer :D)... I'm a software engineer. However, I sketch a lot of 3D diagrams, write a lot of equations and rely on thick and thin pen strokes fairly heavily. To make matters worse, I print very rapidly, which requires a lot of extremely rapid short strokes, where the pen barely leaves the paper. On real paper, this results in thin wispy trails tailing off many of my printed characters. Without pressure sensitivity (on the Acer, at least), this looks pretty bad. With pressure sensitivity turned on (again on the Acer), it looks much better.

(For those who truly don't believe ball points are pressure sensitive -- draw a box with a ball point and then lightly brush it with diagnol lines to fill it in. Now draw another, and fill it with firm bold lines. I can duplicate that effect on the Acer. I suspect that I can't on a TC1000.)

I think I'll need to retrain myself to stop printing, anyway... because the handwriting recognition doesn't handle print as well as cursive. And I can use highlighting and switching pen widths in the tools to get most of the effects I want in my diagrams.

I need to get ahold of a TC1000 to experience the screen and digitizer first hand. If it's significant more accurate and/or responsive than the Acer, that might be enough to swing my opinion.

Thanks for the help!

---Gary

[Kupe]

Gary,

I've used 4 tablets so far (as well as a Wacom digitizer) and find the pressure sensitivity to just not matter. And yes, I agree, you can observe the differences in ballpoint pen ink weight by changing pressure, but it's just not something I rely on - I use a ballpoint (or rollerball more specifically) pen to scribble notes and rough drawings - just like my tablet - except on my tablet they are much smoother, neater, and better organized. I've sent my notes from conferences and business meetings to others in my office, or to clients, and have amazed some folks enough to buy the TC-1000 (3 so far!).

Because the requirements for a tablet really push the technology, every model out there today is a point solution within a complex tradespace of size, weight, performance, battery life, features, and appearance. All of us went through the decision process to come to our conclusion to buy a TC-1000 - I suspect few of us (except maybe sammysams ;) ) regret our TC-1000 decision.

You came for advice, so here is mine. DO NOT BUY THE TC-1000. If you do, you will regret not having something you feel is important. You are convinced pressure sensitivity is of critical importance so why would you look here?

Kupe

[Big Lar]

Gary,

I 100% agree with Kupe. It really seems like you are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Compaq decided to go with the non-pressure sensitive digitizer because they felt it was an acceptable trade-off (performance of their digitizer and battery life vs. pressure sensitivity). It is clear to me (and I'm not sure why it isn't clear to you) that this is NOT an acceptable trade off for you. Don't force it. You'll just be dissatisfied.

--Lar

[yvilla]

Just a thought--the NEC has a glass screen too. If pressure sensitivity is an important feature, why not also consider it, or the Motion, or the Toshiba? There's lots of great Tablets out there!

[paradoxicalcat]

quote:Originally posted by gsnethen


My intention was not to offend anyone. I apologize if that was the result. The responses have been quite helpful.

No offense was taken, sorry if I came off that way. Everybody has a different writing style, not better or worse (except doctors), just different. I'm left handed and have always had the problem of ink getting on my hand when my hand moves over the area I just wrote to. Righties don't seem to have this problem. I have nothing close to a "normal" writing style, but the TC1000 works great for me.
It really depends on how you write. I wish that TabletPC manufacturers would let us try each brand before buying. Why these things aren't stocked at CompUSA, BestBuy, etc. is beyond me.


quote:
I'm not sold on the Acer by any means. In fact, I prefer the TC1000 in almost every other respect, including the harder screen, more responsive digitizer, better graphics, expandability, separable slate, better aesthetics, etc... I'm just frustrated that they did such a great job on so much and left out an important feature of the tablet's primarily role in life -- to create digital ink.

I'm not an artist (nor a doctor or lawyer :D)... I'm a software engineer. However, I sketch a lot of 3D diagrams, write a lot of equations and rely on thick and thin pen strokes fairly heavily. To make matters worse, I print very rapidly, which requires a lot of extremely rapid short strokes, where the pen barely leaves the paper. On real paper, this results in thin wispy trails tailing off many of my printed characters. Without pressure sensitivity (on the Acer, at least), this looks pretty bad. With pressure sensitivity turned on (again on the Acer), it looks much better.

I'm not saying that the TC1000 is a "one-size-fits-all", but instead it's a "your-mileage-may-vary". If you truly write with the pen not leaving the paper to dot your i's and cross your t's and do so in such a manner that you leave a "trail" with the pen, the TC1000 might not your cup of tea. The Acer is nice, but I don't like its memory limitations, and it has a weak keyboard hinge. Have you looked at the Motion yet? If I needed pressure sensitivity, that would be my first choice.


quote:
(For those who truly don't believe ball points are pressure sensitive -- draw a box with a ball point and then lightly brush it with diagnol lines to fill it in. Now draw another, and fill it with firm bold lines. I can duplicate that effect on the Acer. I suspect that I can't on a TC1000.)

All real physical pens do have some form of pressure sensitivity, there's no hiding it. That said, I believe many note takers don't need it. If I were an artist, or if I had a writing style that necessitated it, I would need pres sens. But, I'm a left-handed, non-trailing, non-artistic college student who takes notes 10+ hours a day for Physics, Maths, and computer science. Pressure sensitivity would always be turned off for me, even if I had it. It wastes too much battery and isn't very useful for me.


quote:
I think I'll need to retrain myself to stop printing, anyway... because the handwriting recognition doesn't handle print as well as cursive. And I can use highlighting and switching pen widths in the tools to get most of the effects I want in my diagrams.

HR works just as well for me with print as cursive. Sometimes, print works better. Sometimes, cursive works better. It's strange really, but pretty darn accurate. I find myself printing "words" that are not yet in the dictionary (eg passwords), and writing cursive on words that are common. If simply writing the letter 'b' by itself, it often shows up as 6 if printed, so then I write it cursively.


quote:
I need to get ahold of a TC1000 to experience the screen and digitizer first hand. If it's significant more accurate and/or responsive than the Acer, that might be enough to swing my opinion.

Gosh, I thought you already tried one. Well, you may not need pressure sensitivity on the TC1000 with your writing style. The pen is not like the Acers. The TC1000's pen "clicks" down before writing occurs. It you don't press at all hard when you dot-i's, cross-t's, your very light trails may not be picked up. It depends on how lightly you trail. You really should try one. Do you live near any Franklin Covey stores?


quote:
Thanks for the help!

---Gary


Anytime Gary! Sorry if I sounded rude in my last message. I wasn't trying to, it was 2am :P

[WolverhamptonLecturer]

I really haven't found the need for pressure sensitivity. The other pros of the TC1K far outweigh this piece of functionality.

[gsnethen]

FYI,

Thanks in large part to the input from this thread, I convinced myself to give the TC1000 a shot -- I ordered one last night from TheNerds.net.

The lack of pressure sensitivity does bother me, but so many other features (slate, design and symmetry, happy users, harder screen, wowness factor, etc.) made it score higher on my "desirability matrix". The painful part was convincing myself to pay $350 more for it than the Acer (which is available for $1500 from cdw.com minus a manufacturer's rebate of $100, for an end price of $1400 -- *with* a CD-ROM drive.)

Once it has arrived, I'll post back to this thread to let you know whether or not pressure sensitivity remains an important issue to me.

---Gary

[motion1]

Gary

Dont forget that none of the Acers now available offer more than 256 RAM MAX.... and to me that was important AND the TC1000 is the only only with Nvideo and own memory rather than the others using shared.

all in all...I am sure you will enjoy... I have had mine for over a month and not had one single problem... happy tableting!...is that a new verb for the dictionary????

[bloom]

A lot of us went thru this struggle, whether pressure sensitivity would matter or not. Now, a few weeks into using, and loving, my TC1000, I can assure you that if you're using it to take notes you're not going to notice the difference. In fact, if I could improve something on the TC1000, I would first make it a little speedier (as noted in many places), second make it match NEC's weight specs, and probably add IR to it before worrying about the pressure sensitivity.

I played with several different models and even waited for the NEC before buying the TC1000. I found the Acer more awkward to hold and really appreciate being able to take off the keyboard for meetings and carrying around the hallways. Frankly, I felt writing on the glass screen of the TC1000 was better than any of the plastic screens I tried--including the Acer.

I think you'll also notice there isn't much buyer's remorse in this forum--although I think that's true for all of the models. Once you get it you're probably going to kick yourself for waiting (as I did) so long!

[seankeanename]

hi,
i am considering the tablet pc after a very positive experience with a viewsonic slate in a compusa. i AM an artist is guess... so i understand the importance of varying line value/thickness astheticly... perhaps thats why my experience was so positive - i had to go into Journal and turn on the pressure sensitivity on the viewsonic before i could see this. i went home and learned all i could about things and i have to say that the compaq looks like the best bet - it reminds me way too much of my old beloved Sony Viao 505 which all my friends bought after they saw mine. so, i just had some questions:

the viewsonic seems to have a more 'glass'-like surface than the other toshiba which i tried and hated - but it does have pressure sensitivity i guess? because i could check it off in journal? or was that really the TIME-sensitivity that someone mentioned earlier? so it is possible to have a glass surface, which i prefer, AND pressure sensitvity?

so in Journal, the pressure sensitive checkbox is grayed out?

has anyone tried the earthviewer.com free demo on the compaq? the demo, which is the 3d satillite maped globe used on cnn for the iraq war, requires an nVida chipset - so i was wondering how/if it ran.

i know this is crazy, but if you guys woudn't mind.. i use this program called Macromedia Flash do draw and code in. you can download a demo at http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=flash - this program is pressure sensitive aware. so if the compaq uses the time sensitve ness - is there some sort of driver from compaq that lets it spoof pen sensitivity in these programs? or should i really be looking at somethign like the viewsonic?

do you all think that it is true that compaq will come out with another tablet pc product this summer? i really want one of these things. thansk so much.

sean

[seankeanename]

sorry for all my spelling errors. i posted that when real tired. so with the price reductions of the tc1000 in the UK, ya think something new is coming out? do you think they would make it pressure sensitive? probably not, right?